How much better was Larry Bird than Magic Johnson?

[TmacsRockets]

Magic 3 finals mvp's 3 season mvp's
Bird 2 finals mvp's, 3 season mvp's.

Too close to call.

[Shepseskaf]

Please ban this idiot "LarryLegend" before he starts making new threads about Bird being better than Magic on a daily basis. Wasn't there a near-identical thread a few days ago?

As far as the comparison goes, stats don't really tell the story. Magic was undoubtely more important to his team than Bird was to his. Take Bird away from those prime Boston teams, and you still have a solid squad. Take Magic away from the Lakers and you've got a whole new ballgame.

The difference between the two wasn't that great, but Magic > Bird looks right to me. Their head to head competition, both in college and in the League bears this out.

[72-10]

I consider Magic #5 and Bird #6.

[Kiddlovesnets]

WTF! Magic Johnson is actually a slightly better player than Larry Bird.

[chains5000]

First Sir Charles....

Now this...

Blame the mods

[Sir Charles]

Prime Bird is a Better player than Magic.

End

[magic chiongson]

magic is goat





if that guy named michael jordan was never born

[eliteballer]

Yeaaaaah everyone, Prime Bird is so much better than Magic just take a look at their stats in the 1985 Finals:

Magic: 18.3 pts, 6.8 reb, 14.0 ast, 2.2 stl, 0.0 blk, 49.4 FG%, 50 3FG%, 87.1 FT%, 39.2 mpg

Bird: 23.8 pts, 8.8 reb, 5.0 ast, 1.8 stl, .7 blk, 44.9 FG%, 33.3 3FG%, 85 FT%, 40.2 mpg

Those 14 assists are not a typo

[chains5000]

Yeaaaaah everyone, Prime Bird is so much better than Magic just take a look at their stats in the 1985 Finals:

Magic: 18.3 pts, 6.8 reb, 14.0 ast, 2.2 stl, 0.0 blk, 49.4 FG%, 50 3FG%, 87.1 FT%, 39.2 mpg

Bird: 23.8 pts, 8.8 reb, 5.0 ast, 1.8 stl, .7 blk, 44.9 FG%, 33.3 3FG%, 85 FT%, 40.2 mpg

Those 14 assists are not a typo

I won't say either of them is better than the other, but your argument is really simplistic.

[Sir Charles]

Yeaaaaah everyone, Prime Bird is so much better than Magic just take a look at their stats in the 1985 Finals:

Magic: 18.3 pts, 6.8 reb, 14.0 ast, 2.2 stl, 0.0 blk, 49.4 FG%, 50 3FG%, 87.1 FT%, 39.2 mpg

Bird: 23.8 pts, 8.8 reb, 5.0 ast, 1.8 stl, .7 blk, 44.9 FG%, 33.3 3FG%, 85 FT%, 40.2 mpg

Those 14 assists are not a typo : roll:

Those 14 APG are easier to get if you have Running Machines like: James Worthy, Michael Cooper etc and the Most Skilled Center Ever, Jabbar

[Rolando]

Bird = GOAT SF
Magic= GOAT PG

You can't compare GOATS at different positions. It just comes down to who you like more.

[starks]

Below articles are proof that by 1986, Bird was considered as the undisputed best player in the league, and probably the GOAT by some. One thing that's interesting is that some respected names called him the greatest passer of all time, in a time when Magic was around.

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT: BIRD MAKES HIS MARK
Jan Hubbard
16 May 1985
The Dallas Morning News

"When Larry first came here,' said Boston forward Cedric Maxwell, "it was just like it was another white guy coming into play: "He might be all right, but he ain't that good.' But before the NBA got a chance to see how good Larry Bird was, I did. We battled every day, and I said, "Shoot, this guy's pretty good.' And now he's pretty great.'

Basketball fans know that. Some suggest the 28-year-old Bird is not only the greatest player playing today, but maybe the best ever. Since he arrived in Boston six years ago, Bird has led the Celtics to an average of 61 victories, and two NBA titles. This season, he was second in the league in scoring (28.7), second in 3-point percentage (.427), sixth in free-throw percentage (.882) and eighth in rebounding (10.5). He played for most of the season with bone chips in his right (shooting) elbow.

Experts Pick Kareem as Best Ever
Associated Press
8 February 1986

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the Los Angeles Lakers' peerless center, is the greatest basketball player ever, according to a 60-member panel of experts polled by the Dallas Morning News.

Abdul-Jabbar, who turns 39 in April, is playing in his 17th professional season, an NBA record. Eighteen voters in the Morning News poll named him the greatest player, enabling him to beat out Oscar Robertson, a former Milwaukee Bucks teammate, who was named on 14 ballots.

***

Besides Abdul-Jabbar, Bird was the only active player to receive votes as the greatest player ever (four). "His approach to the game is almost unparalleled,' said Guokas, who voted for Bird. "He will cut your heart out to win. He has the ability to handle the ball, shoot and rebound. He can pass and make everybody on the floor better.'

Bob Cousy, one of the league's all-time great guards, played with Russell, yet he voted for Bird as best player. "He shows you something different all night,' Cousy said. "He simply doesn't have any weaknesses.

Celtics' Bird plays in a world of his own
Robert Sansevere
29 May 1986
Star-Tribune

Bird received the MVP award yesterday for the third straight year. He is only the third player in the NBA's 40-year history - and the first non-center - to win the award three years in a row. Bill Russell (1961-63) and Wilt Chamberlain (1966-68) were the others.

"Larry's the greatest total player I've ever seen in the game of basketball," said Celtics coach K.C. Jones, who played with Russell and against Chamberlain.

Bird ranked among the league leaders in five categories while leading the Celtics to an NBA-best 67-15 regular-season record and to the NBA finals for the third straight year.

Detroit Piston Coach Chuck Daly, on Larry Bird: "He's the best passer in the league. He finds the open man better than anybody else. He is the greatest passer of all time." Note: On a recent telecast, as Bird was preparing to throw the ball in, CBS analyst Doug Collins said, "Larry Bird is the greatest inbounds passer I have ever seen."

Celtics' Bird: The master of the court
JOHN McCLAIN
Staff
1 June 1986
Houston Chronicle

"Yeah, Larry's just like a chess player," Houston Rockets General Manager Ray Patterson says. "I don't know of a better way to describe him. He's like a chess player who plays 40 boards. He knows where all the moves are. He's a thing of beauty to watch. He puts on a clinic. Sometimes, it's almost like he's out there playing with nine guys from the YMCA. "He creates things on the court even he doesn't know exist," Patterson says. "He's like a great artist or composer, and he's got the heart of a lion."

"No one can do the things Larry can do. I think he's the best ever. He practices like it's the seventh game of the championship series. When Larry gets hot, a little voice starts directing him and he's on radar," says Fitch, who coached Bird in his first four years with the Celtics.

Bird: Last of NBA Cops
By Mike Fish. The Kansas City Star and Times
1302 words
9 November 1986

Celtics president Red Auerbach, in his fourth decade with the team, says Bird is the most intense player ever to wear the Kelly green of Boston. That includes blood-and-guts types such as Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Dave Cowens and John Havlicek.

And the best to play on the parquet of Boston Garden? Probably Bird.

"I don't ever compare the great Celtic players, because I would praise one and insult four or five others," Johnny Most said. "I will say, that in my opinion, Larry Bird is the most complete basketball player that ever lived."

Bird is a slow 6-9 forward who specializes in the running game and ranks with the league's best rebounders and shooters. He seems to see the game in slow motion, keeping the ball in the air, creating as he goes along.

It used to be he was considered the most dominant non-center in the game. Or the best all-around player since Oscar Robertson. In many corners, it is now just: "The best."

Larry Bird: Is he the best ever?
SAM GOLDAPER
New York Times
12 November 1986

NEW YORK - Give Larry Bird room and he'll bury a three-point field goal. Play him tight and he'll drive past you. Guard him one-on-one in the low posts and he'll spin along the baseline for a soft, left-handed layup.

Another National Basketball Association season is here, and coaches and players - many of whom already concede Bird a fourth straight most valuable player award - talk now about whether he is the greatest who ever played the game.

"There is no question he is the greatest player today," said Hubie Brown, the New York Knicks' coach. "He is already at a level very few people will reach, no matter what their profession. He has stature of almost awe, not only from coaches and fans, but from his peers."

***

There have been other great shooters, other great rebounders. other great passers, but none has ever put all those skills together better than Bird has.

A National Sports Review poll recently asked 100 athletes, all of them all-stars and leading money winners, to vote for the athlete they most admired in a sport other than their own.

Bird was the winner with 22 votes.

[Shepseskaf]

Those 14 APG are easier to get if you have Running Machines like: James Worthy, Michael Cooper etc and the Most Skilled Center Ever, Jabbar

More stupidity. As was stated earlier, stats DO NOT tell the story when comparing these two. If you actually watched them play, it was obvious that Magic was the better player -- not by a huge margin, but certainly enough to create space between them.

I hate revisionists who come in and try to usurp the truth. Magic and Bird were two of the greatest players ever, and they literally saved the league from oblivion. Head to head, Magic won more titles, both in college and in the league. They're obviously both Top 10, but Magic is higher on the totem pole.

[Sir Charles]

More stupidity. As was stated earlier, stats DO NOT tell the story when comparing these two. If you actually watched them play, it was obvious that Magic was the better player -- not by a huge margin, but certainly enough to create space between them.

I hate revisionists who come in and try to usurp the truth. Magic and Bird were two of the greatest players ever, and they literally saved the league from oblivion. Head to head, Magic won more titles, both in college and in the league. They're obviously both Top 10, but Magic is higher on the totem pole.

Are you saing Magic is Better because of his Smile, Popularity, Won More Championships and Because he was More Flashy?

Ist it because you are Black or sometin?

I watched them both Play an Bird was Better:

Bird entered the League at same time as Magic

[COLOR="blue"]Bird = Rookie of the Year[/COLOR]

*More Impact than Magic

Celtics With No Bird:

1978-79 Boston Celtics [COLOR="Red"]29-53[/COLOR], Finished 5th in NBA Atlantic Division (Game Results)

Celtics With Bird

1979-80 Boston Celtics Statistics

[COLOR="Blue"]61-21[/COLOR], Finished 1st in NBA Atlantic Division

Magic had way superior casts by his 1st season: Jabbar, Norm Nixon, Jamaal Wilkes not to Mention Played in a [COLOR="Blue"]Way Weaker Conference(as Doctor J, Walton and many always make fun of the Lakers cause of that, They Faced Nobodies Compared to what the Celtics faced: Sixers, Pistons, Bucks, Cavs, Hawks, Knicks[/COLOR]

Bird A Better Scorer

Yes, Bird was GUARDED WAY MORE TIGHTLY than Magic has ever been plus Magic would get many loose open shots after Jabbar was Doubled Teamed or there was preocupation on James (McaDoo etc).

In fact Bird was one of the Most Guarded Players Ever and from the 1981 to 1986 Probably the The Most Tightly Guarded in the Perimter or Post (other than Centers) in the Whole League

Nothing agains the Magic Man he smartly learned his Role as When to Take Shots benefiting from the Constant Double Teaming on Jabbar (Main Focus) and Worthy (Second Main Focus)

Bird A Better Shooter (Mid Range, Far Range, Post Range)

That is obvious. Magic develeoped into a Better Shooter as Time Passed...

Bird As Good a Passer as Magic

Yes he is a SF and from there he averaged more Assits than All the PFs, SFs, SGs and many PGs in his Time. By the way, Bird just needed 1 inch to get Off his Passes and was Guarded Tightly by BOTH SFs and PFS

Better FT Shooter

Ofcourse...

Better 3-Point Shooter

Ofcourse...

Magics overall PER is Higher at Total obviously because Bird could hardly Play after 1989 when he Got Injured and Magic was sorrounded by Superior Casts

But one must Remember....

Birds PER PEEK is just insane and Superior to Magic`s

1982-83 NBA 24.1 (3)
[COLOR="Red"]1983-84 NBA 24.2 (2)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]1984-85 NBA 26.5 (1)
1985-86 NBA 25.6 (1)[/COLOR]
1986-87 NBA 26.4 (3)
[COLOR="red"]1987-88 NBA 27.8 (2)[/COLOR]

Magics`s PER

1981-82 NBA 22.9 (7)
1982-83 NBA 23.0 (6)
1983-84 NBA 22.6 (7)
1984-85 NBA 23.2 (4)
1985-86 NBA 24.0 (4)
[COLOR="Red"]1986-87 NBA 27.0 (2)[/COLOR]
1987-88 NBA 23.1 (8)
1988-89 NBA 26.9 (3)
1989-90 NBA 26.6 (4)
1990-91 NBA 25.1 (4)

Overall Best Player in the League from the 1981 to 1987 stretch.

Not Just the Best Player in his Position but THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE.

Bird was More Clutch and Competitive than Magic

There are Very Few Players that Have Matched Bird Clutchness (West, Miller, Jordan where almost as Clutch) and Competitivenss: Only Jordan only can relate to that.

Better Defender than Magic

Magic averaged more SPG obviously because he plays outside but then again he was what? 6`8-6`9 that was easy for him.

Magic`s BPG Avg is very low especially for guy that had so much advantage at 6`8-6`9 at the PG and his Defensive will was way Inferior to Bird`s reason why Bird Averged 0.8 BPG.

While Magic guarded smaller players and very few scoring point guard threats: Isiah or Monciref if that sometimes...

Bird had to deal with: Bernard King, Alex English, Doctor J, James Worthy, Tom Chambers, Adrian Dantley,

*Bird SPG was still great

Season: 1.7 SPG
Play-Offs: 1.8 SPG

Magic`s descreased in the Play-Offs (Clutch Time)

Season: 2.0 SPG
Play-Offs: 1.88 SPG

Bird`s Defensive Rating

1979-80 NBA 98.2 (6)
1981-82 NBA 99.4 (7)
1983-84 NBA 100.8 (2)
1984-85 NBA 102.8 (8)
1985-86 NBA 99.4 (4)

Magic`sDefensive Rating

1980-81 NBA 98.3 (8)
Thats it..

Finally Bird Ranks TOP 6 All TIME IN EFF

Which Shows You How Efficient, Skilled and Rich in Fundamentals Bird was... Without Taking Into Account Minutes Per Game Which Depend Basically on Your Impac/Skill do to your Physical or Athletic Abilities and Magic`s case was favored by having 6-7 inches over All PGs in the league and as i mentioned before: Better Casts!

http://www.basketballreference.com/l...?stat=eff&lg=n

Career EFF Leaders

Player EFF Seasons
1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13
3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
[COLOR="Orange"]5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20 [/COLOR] (Magic`s Great Help Here?, Yes!)
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]6 Larry Bird 29.77 13 [/COLOR]
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
[COLOR="Orange"]9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13 [/COLOR]
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16

Bird > Magic....No Discussion To Me

[RAPSCANWIN]

As a poster in this forum of comparitive elderly experience who remembers first hand the prime Showtime Lakers and Celtics....

Magic = Bird

Its awful tough to say one is better then the other. They were both the best players in the league at their positions.

Magic was more exciting to watch, but Bird was the most fundamentally sound player ive seen, and crafty too. Boy was Bird crafty and smart.