Prime Kobe vs. Prime Jordan

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe is a more versatile player, better defender,passer LEADER.

Lotsa statements there, no evidence. LOL @ better leader and defender, btw. Wow. The level of delusion one has to be laboring under to believe that makes my head hurt. 24 is apparently your IQ as well.

[bruceblitz]

Kobe is a more versatile player, better defender,passer LEADER.

According to what?

[StroShow4]

Stop mucking up my topic, people. Thanks.

This is what happens when you make a Kobe vs. Jordan thread. My advice: Don't make them.

[zay_24]

LOL!!!
Atleast Kobe can lead his team to a winning record without an allstar LOL

[KenneBell]

Meh, never been much of a pizza hut fan myself...

You're crazy. If Mike Da God made pizza, it's what he would make.

[TheAnchorman]

LOL!!!
Atleast Kobe can lead his team to a winning record without an allstar LOL

.....

Retard.

[bruceblitz]

LOL!!!
Atleast Kobe can lead his team to a winning record without an allstar LOL

Jordan is to basketball what Ali was to boxing, what Babe Ruth was to baseball, what Michael Phelps is to swimming and what Tiger Woods is to golf.

Ah well, let me go through all this again

[OldSchoolBBall]

My good man, you blatantly unmask your prejudice against any person of the Laker ilth. When have I ever said anything questionable about Mr. Jordan? Ahhhh, but I am a Laker fan so I must not like Michael Jordan. Do you not consider yourself a zealous MJ fan? Why must you create a scene just to discuss the greatness of MJ. MJ, a Hall of Fame player. NBA Champion. The Greatest. We all know this. You aren't coming to the table with groundbreaking information. You are using the same dry arguments mixed with fairytale PER and EFF and OPP and NWA stats. You sir are a creeton. And if you don't apologise to me for your lack of repect and misplaced judgement, I will be forced to slap you with a glove and challenge you to a dual. I'm waiting.

Ilk. Duel. Cretin.

As to your question, when you first came on the board a month or so ago, you made several pretty biased posts about Jordan. Fortunately for you, this board lacks a search feature. So no, it wasn't just about the Laker avatar, though that's corroborating evidence.

As for why I created the topic (which I've never done before), it's because there have been a ton of anti-Jordan posts/threads recently.

[bruceblitz]

LOL!!!
Atleast Kobe can lead his team to a winning record without an allstar LOL

Magic Johnson calls Michael Jordan the "best ever" in 1993
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jAbDdCz49Y

Magic Johnson: "sometimes the Bulls rely on Michael too much" basically says the Lakers of the 80's had "so many more weapons than the Bulls".

lol owned

Why is Michael Jordan the best ever? This video explains:
David Stern calls Jordan the standard barrier
Dr J calls Jordan the best basketball player ever seen
Jerry West calls Jordan best ever and flawless also calls him Superman. Jerry West says Jordan emotionally destroys players and takes their courage away
Elgin Baylor calls Michael Jordan impossible to defend
Magic Johnson says the only weakness to Jordan is if he shows up and only wants to score 30 instead of 50 (being sarcastic)
Bob Cousy calls Jordan the mona lisa of basketball, says Jordan is the best basketball player he's ever seen perform
Chuck Daly also makes reference to Jordan being the best ever and the ultimate competitor.
Magic Johnson: "I thought I was the most competitive person I ever knew, until I met Michael"

Magic Johnson "there wont ever be another Michael Jordan, that's for sure"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1mFE_ekV7E

Scottie Pippen calls Jordan the greatest player ever seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKCQKoklDdw



what do those guys know though?

[amfirst]

Everybody knows Kobe is better than Jordan...

[OldSchoolBBall]

LOL!!!
Atleast Kobe can lead his team to a winning record without an allstar LOL

That's funny, because I could have sworn that Jordan led the Bulls to 50 wins in 1988 without another all-star on the team.

[zay_24]

Let me tell you something you little **** sucking *****, you don't know a damn thing about Michael Jordan's career, all you know is that you are in love with Kobe because you have what is known as a friggin man crush.

Jordan is to basketball what Ali was to boxing, what Babe Ruth was to baseball, what Michael Phelps is to swimming and what Tiger Woods is to golf.

Ah well, let me go through all this again for another moron...

LOL!!
How old are you, 15?
What do you know about jordan cuz.

[bruceblitz]

LOL!!
How old are you, 15?
What do you know about jordan cuz.

I am going to still this post from a knowledgeable poster on two other sites. This is how he explains why MJ is the GOAT.

Well let's look at some of the candidates first.

1. MJ (6 Titles, 5 League MVP's, 6 Finals MVP's, Career Leader in PPG Regular Season and Playoffs, and Most Points in Playoffs, etc)
2. Magic (5 Titles, 3 League MVP's, 3 Finals MVP's, # of APG titles)
3. Kareem (6 Titles, 6 League MVP's, 3 Finals MVP's, Career Points leader)
4. Russell (11 Titles, 5 League MVP's)
5. Wilt (2 Titles, 4 League MVP's, 1 Finals MVP)

Close
6. Bird (3 Titles, 3 League MVP's, 2 Finals MVP's)
7. Shaq (4 Titles, 1 League MVP's, 3 Finals MVP's)

So if we break it down, let's go by the following:


League MVP's
6 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5 - Michael Jordan
5 - Bill Russell
4 - Wilt Chamberlain
3 - Larry Bird
3 - Magic Johnson
3 - Moses Malone

Finals MVP's
6 - Michael Jordan
3 - Magic Johnson
3 - Shaquille O'neal
3 - Tim Duncan
2 - Kareem
2- Bird
1 - Wilt
1 - Moses Malone

Championships
11 - Bill Russell
6 - Michael Jordan
6 - Kareem
5 - Magic
4 - Shaq
4 - Duncan
2 - Wilt

Career Stats and Records - Regular Season
APG Leader: Magic
RPG Leader: Wilt
All-time Career Points Leader: Kareem
All-time PPG Leader: M.Jordan

Playoff Stats and Records - Playoffs
Total Assists Leader: Magic Johnson
APG Leader Playoffs: Magic Johnson
Total Rebounds Leader: Bill Russell
RPG Leader Playoffs: Bill Russell
All-time Career Points Leader Playoffs: M.Jordan
All-time PPG Leader Playoffs: M.Jordan

So currently the only players that fit the bill in each category are both MJ's.

Now if you add the fact of Defensive Teams that would eliminate Magic. However, I won't do that to him because he is my 2nd favorite player.

Now if you want you can add in the TSN MVP award as well

TSN MVP
7 - Michael Jordan
6 - Kareem
4 - Wilt
4 - Russell
2 - Moses
2 - Shaq
1 - Hakeem
1 - Magic

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baske...ree-team_x.htm

http://motownsportsrevival.blogspot....-all-time.html

So Kareem has the most league MVP's, MJ the most Finals MVP's, and Russell the most titles.

MJ is near the top in all of them though as is Russell, but Russell doesn't have the numbers to support him.

Also consider

Kareem won League MVP and Finals MVP in 1971
Magic won League MVP and Finals MVP in 1987
MJ won League MVP and Finals MVP in 1991, 1992, 1996 and 1998.


Now all of that is looking at accolades, so how do we go even further in deciding who is the best as we can't just use titles alone. Well what did they did yearly and in the playoffs?




http://www.answers.com/topic/nba-records

The Playoffs is where you make your name and where greatness is defined. But MJ was more consistent and holds records as well such as:

Highest PPG Average: 30.12
Most seasons leading league in Points: 11
Most scoring titles: 10
Highest PER Efficiency: 27.91

Also, MJ is no doubt the greatest playoff performer and IMO he was the greatest Road Player Ever. Most of his greatest feats happened on the road.

As far as the playoffs go, here are a few things that stuck out in my mind:

Playoffs
Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Games
8 by Michael Jordan

Most 40 Point Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)

These players all lost these series with Homecourt advantage which means they were the favorite. If someone was injured like a main star then that factors in, but if not that doesn't factor in the discussion.



MJ never lost a series with homecourt advantage/better seed/better record. What does that mean, well he was the only superstar to never lose a series in which his team was considered the favorite and better team. All the other legends lost series.

Also consider the following:

Is 18% a good percentage?

In what you might ask... 18% winning percentage...

Pretty awful right?

Well in 60 years of NBA Basketball only 11 league leading scorers have won a championship... That's 18.333333%...

Their names are: Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, George Mikan and some guy named Joe Fulks...

Most of these players were dominant Centers, who did more than just score.

That means that non center players who led the league in scoring have won in an amazing 10% of the time.. and only one player did it... Michael Jordan. In one era. That phenomenon of nature who won six...

10% winning historically!!! 10 PERCENT!!!

I will argue that the odds are against a high scoring guard from winning it all.

Here are the playoff top games.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...vidual_points/

Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances
Player Team Opponent Total Date
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986
Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 56 March 22, 1962
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992
Charles Barkley Phoenix at Golden State 56 May 4, 1994
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997
John Havlicek Boston Atlanta 54 April 1, 1973
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 54 May 9, 2001
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 53 March 14, 1960
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Boston 53 April 23, 1969
Jerry West L.A. Lakers Baltimore 52 April 5, 1965
Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 52 May 16, 2001
Sam Jones Boston at New York 51 March 28, 1967
Eric Floyd Golden State L.A. Lakers 51 May 10, 1987
Bob Cousy Boston Syracuse 50* March 21, 1953
Bob Petit St. Louis Boston 50 April 12, 1958
Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia at Boston 50 March 22, 1950
Wilt Chamberlain San Francisco St. Louis 50 April 10, 1964
Billy Cunningham Philadelphia Milwaukee 50 April 1, 1970
Bob McAdoo Buffalo Washington 50 April 18, 1975
Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Detroit 50 April 19, 1986
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989
Karl Malone Utah Seattle 50 April 22, 2000
Vince Carter Toronto Philadelphia 50 May 11, 2001
*4 overtimes
^overtime

This is courtesy of NBA on NBC here:

NBA PLAYOFFS HIGH SCORING GAME BY YEAR
1946-47 - 37 Joe Fulks, PHW vs CHI at PHW 16Apr47
1947-48 - 34 Connie Simmons, BLT vs NYK at BLT 27Mar48
1948-49 - 42 George Mikan, MPL vs WSC 4Apr49 @ MPL
1949-50 - 40 George Mikan, MPL vs SYR at MPL 23Apr50
1950-51 - 41 George Mikan, MPL vs IDS at MPL 21Mar51
1951-52 - 47 George Mikan, MPL at ROC 29Mar52
1952-53 - 50 Bob Cousy, BOS vs SYR at BOS 21Mar53
1953-54 - 36 Dolph Schayes, SYR at NYK 21Mar54
1954-55 - 32 Bill Sharman, BOS at SYR 24Mar55
1955-56 - 43 Neil Johnson, PHW at SYR 25Mar56
1956-57 - 42 Bob Leonard, MPL vs STL at MPL 25Mar57
1957-58 - 50 Bob Pettit, STL vs BOS at STL 12Apr58
1958-59 - 40 Cliff Hagan, STL vs MPL at STL 21Mar59
1959-60 - 53 Wilt Chamberlain, PHW vs SYR at PHW 14Mar60
1960-61 - 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at DET 18Mar61
............... 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at STL 27Mar61
1961-62 - 61 Elgin Baylor, LAL at BOS 14Apr62
1962-63 - 47 Sam Jones, BOS vs CIN at BOS 10Apr63
1963-64 - 50 Wilt Chamberlain, SFW vs STL at SFW 10Apr64
1964-65 - 52 Jerry West, LAL vs BAL at LAL 3Apr65
1965-66 - 46 Wilt Chamberlain, PHI vs BOS at PHI 12Apr66
1966-67 - 55 Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI at SFW 18Apr67
1967-68 - 46 Zelmo Beaty, STL vs SFW 23Mar68 @ STL
1968-69 - 53 Jerry West, LAL vs BOS at LAL 23Apr69
1969-70 - 50 Billy Cunningham, PHI vs MIL at PHI 1Apr70
1970-71 - 39 Gail Goodrich, LAL at CHI 28Mar71
1971-72 - 43 John Havlicek BOS at ATL 31Mar72
1972-73 - 54 John Havlicek, BOS vs ATL at BOS 1Apr73
1973-74 - 44 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs BOS 6Apr74 at BUF
............... 44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, MIL at CHI 18Apr74
1974-75 - 50 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs WAS at BUF 18Apr75
1975-76 - 45 Fred Brown, SEA vs PHO at SEA 15Apr76
1976-77 - 45 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LAL vs GSW at LAL 29Apr77
1977-78 - 46 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 18Apr78
1978-79 - 42 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 11May79
............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at WAS 18May79
1979-80 - 44 George Gervin, SAN vs HOU at SAN 4Apr80
1980-81 - 42 Calvin Murphy, HOU at SAN 17Apr81
............... 42 Moses Malone, HOU vs KCK at HOU 26Apr81
1981-82 - 39 George Gervin, SAN vs LAL at SAN 14May82
............... 39 Andrew Toney, PHI vs BOS at PHI 16May82
1982-83 - 42 Alex English, DEN vs PHO at PHO 24Apr83
............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at DEN 26Apr83
1983-84 - 46 Bernard King, NYK at DET 19Apr84
............... 46 Bernard King, NYK vs DET at NYK 22Apr84
1984-85 - 43 Rolando Blackman, DAL vs POR at DAL 18Apr85
............... 43 Larry Bird, BOS vs DET at BOS 8May85
1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS 20Apr86
1986-87 - 51 Sleepy Floyd, GSW vs LAL at GSW 10May87
1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 1May88
1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 5May89
1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 11May90
1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 10May91
1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA 29Apr92
1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI 16Jun93
1993-94 - 56 Charles Barkley, PHO at GSW 4May94
1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA 28Apr95
1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK 11May96
1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI 27Apr97
1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA 14Jun98
1998-99 - 37 Tim Duncan, SAN at LAL 22May99
............... 37 Scottie Pippen, HOU vs LAL at HOU 13May99
............... 37 Shaquille O'Neal, LAL vs HOU at HOU 15May99
............... 37 Allen Iverson, PHI vs ORL at PHI 15May99
1999-00 - 50 Karl Malone, UTA vs SEA at UTA 22Apr00
-----
ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2
Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS
Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0
Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8
Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6


Also MJ has 6 playoffs series where he averaged at least 40 ppg.

Why is Kobe Bryant ever so absent from lists like these?

Pippen wasn't a top 50 player in 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992 nor 1993. If he was a top 50 player it didn't happen until 1996 after they won their 4th title.

Don't be dumb.

So that means Wade is much better than Kobe since as a rookie Wade led his team to round 2 with Odom and Butler while when Kobe had them he didn't make the playoffs.

I'll wait for you to dispute all this. Which you can't.

[Abraham Lincoln]

LOL!!
How old are you, 15?
What do you know about jordan cuz.

Sir Alborz, if thou may entertain us wise men, who be the better rebounder. Kobe Bryant or Charles Barkley?

[bruceblitz]

Sir Alborz, if thou may entertain us wise men, who be the better rebounder. Kobe Bryant or Charles Barkley?

lol thouest maketh me laugheth