How would you define "pure shooter"??

[bruceblitz]

that's not pushing off with both hands, it's having a jacked up guide hand mechanic, like i said.

if he tucks his shooting elbow in, his strong hand is virtually textbook. the guide hand is what f**ks up the whole thing when you look at it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rdewOuEL4o
Ok, what I want you to do, is pay close attention at the 1:20 mark, but watch the entire video, he even looks to be pushing just as hard with his left hand as his right hand. This is a good HQ video, forget what language it's in, his shooting form was jacked up. With repetition and practice he became very effective even with the jacked up shooting form, but, it's ugly man. He pushed the ball HARD with his left thumb/hand every time he shoots the ball and almost turns his hands inward. Terrible follow through.

[Biddy77]

I'm seriously wondering how much of Reggie Miller's career you saw.

all of it.

visualize his shot with his shoulder, elbow, and wrist in line so that the ball isn't above his head, or pushing his elbow out to the side. that arm then becomes textbook.

he certainly wasn't pushing off with that guide hand, and this is how his shot looked unless he had to make adjustments due to contests.





in this one, you actually see his guide hand *falling away* from the ball...



and in this one, the end result after the hand has fallen away, which shows the guide hand nowhere near the point of release...




how much of his career did YOU see?

[bruceblitz]

all of it.

visualize his shot with his shoulder, elbow, and wrist in line so that the ball isn't above his head, or pushing his elbow out to the side. that arm then becomes textbook.

he certainly wasn't pushing off with that guide hand, and this is how his shot looked unless he had to make adjustments due to contests.




^^^^OMG THAT IS UGLY!!^^^^
in this one, you actually see his guide hand *falling away* from the ball...



and in this one, the end result after the hand has fallen away, which shows the guide hand nowhere near the point of release...


^^^^SEE THE FOLLOW THROUGH WITH HIS LEFT THUMB? THAT'S BECAUSE HE PUSHED IT WITH THE LEFT THUMB. BAD FORM.

how much of his career did YOU see?

Instead of turning this into a who's the better fan, notice how far his shooting elbow is kicked out in the third from the bottom picture. That's ugly ass form, UGLY AS SIN! Now watch the video I posted for you. The elbow isn't lined up pre-shot, he uses both hands to shoot the ball (especially the left thumb), follow through is brutal, hands end up touching each other.

[Biddy77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rdewOuEL4o
Ok, what I want you to do, is pay close attention at the 1:20 mark, but watch the entire video, he even looks to be pushing just as hard with his left hand as his right hand. This is a good HQ video, forget what language it's in, his shooting form was jacked up. With repetition and practice he became very effective even with the jacked up shooting form, but, it's ugly man. He pushed the ball HARD with his left thumb/hand every time he shoots the ball and almost turns his hands inward. Terrible follow through.

i watched the vid, and i'm telling you, that is NOT pushing off with the off hand. the shooting hand does the pushing in his shot, the guide hand just follows it--or are you actually trying to suggest that the hand on the top/side of the ball is catapaulting the shot, despite evidence (in photo and a billion vids) to the contrary?

[bruceblitz]

i watched the vid, and i'm telling you, that is NOT pushing off with the off hand. the shooting hand does the pushing in his shot, the guide hand just follows it--or are you actually trying to suggest that the hand on the top/side of the ball is catapaulting the shot, despite evidence (in photo and a billion vids) to the contrary?

Too bad I pointed out in your pictures the flaws. He pushes the ball hard with the left thumb, his elbow is kicked out pre-shot, and his follow through is brutal. That being said, he was still one of the most effective shooters ever. Not a pure shooter though. Just a great shooter.

[Biddy77]

LOL i didn't say the shot wasn't ugly as hell. i've even said that the off hand is all f**ked up repeatedly in this. the issue we're haggling over is basically the function of the off hand in his shot. you're saying he's actually *pushing* with it, i'm arguing that it's just jacked up follow-through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppm6t...eature=related

[bruceblitz]

LOL i didn't say the shot wasn't ugly as hell. i've even said that the off hand is all f**ked up repeatedly in this. the issue we're haggling over is basically the function of the off hand in his shot. you're saying he's actually *pushing* with it, i'm arguing that it's just jacked up follow-through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppm6t...eature=related

A: his right elbow is kicked out when he's setting up his shot
B: he pushes the ball with his left thumb hard
C: when his follow through is complete both hands end up touching each other

BRUTAL form. It's crazy how effective he was shooting like that.

[bruceblitz]

[QUOTE]
........unorthodox shooting form, such as Reggie Miller

[bruceblitz]

he just has f**ked up follow through with that hand.

WRONG. He was one of the most unorthodoxed shooters of all time.

You would never hand a kid a tape of Reggie Miller's shooting form and tell them to emulate it.

As I've said from the beginning, he has 3 flaws.

1: Right elbow is not in line with the shot, it's kicked out (this was LeBron's flaw when he came into the league, but he's corrected it)

2: He pushes the ball with his left thumb, hard.

3: Both hands end up touching each other on the follow through, a big no no.

It's ok to say you were wrong. His shot form is brutal, and not even close to text book.

[Biddy77]

http://lowposts.com/ugly-shots/

backtrack.

seriously.

repeated references to his elbow being too far out, the ball being above his head, the guide arm having jacked up follow through... and yet you repeatedly act as though i'm running around saying reggie = pure form.

[bruceblitz]

backtrack.

seriously.

repeated references to his elbow being too far out, the ball being above his head, the guide arm having jacked up follow through... and yet you repeatedly act as though i'm running around saying reggie = pure form.

Well, seeing as how you agree with me, I think that's the end of this non-debate.

[Biddy77]

/sigh

ok, here we go.

from my first post discussing miller's form:

"reggie... his shooting hand was fairly textbook... made the right angles at elbow and wrist, etc... but he pulled it up in front of his face, and that guide hand REALLY got retarded"

the bolded portion automatically implies an issue with arm position, and should have clued you in that when i said "made the right angles at elbow and wrist", it was in reference to the angle of bend, NOT the orientation between shooter and the basket.

from my next reply on the subject:

"if he tucks his shooting elbow in, his strong hand is virtually textbook. the guide hand is what f**ks up the whole thing when you look at it."

a reference to tucking in the elbow in order to properly orient the arm in relation to the basket.

next...:

"visualize his shot with his shoulder, elbow, and wrist in line so that the ball isn't above his head, or pushing his elbow out to the side. that arm then becomes textbook."

self explanatory.


and yet... this is a reply from you later on, basically accusing me of saying his shot was pure? you even highlight some of the SAME S**T i just pointed out while you're trying to rail against me...

"Too bad I pointed out in your pictures the flaws. He pushes the ball hard with the left thumb, his elbow is kicked out pre-shot, and his follow through is brutal. That being said, he was still one of the most effective shooters ever. Not a pure shooter though. Just a great shooter"

speechless.

[bruceblitz]

/sigh

If you can't see his elbow kicked out, you're blind.

[Biddy77]

If you can't see his elbow kicked out, you're blind.

jesus christ, do you read anything? i just quoted it AGAIN, and made reference to his elbow being kicked out AGAIN in the post right above this.

post 29... and ANOTHER reference to his elbow being kicked out in post 32... and then the requote of BOTH in the reply two seconds ago...

[pete's montreux]

Biddy, why are you arguing with that retard. Just let it go.