Michael Jordan Anti-clutch Log

[DonDadda59]

People need to relax. Fatal doesn't have an agenda (this time), he simply finds the stats interesting.

It's true, today's players are held to a standard that players before them were not.

BTW, LOL when people say Kobe/LeBron fans are worse. Jordan fans take the cake.

From what I've seen, you're a good poster. But you can't see the agenda? Really?

I mean it's so blatant this time around, even though he only has one true agenda guiding all of his posts no matter what angle he tries to do it from. This guy spends all of his time perusing old game stats and footage looking for one thing, anything that he thinks fits his failed crusade.

[dr8ked]

[Knoe Itawl]

From what I've seen, you're a good poster. But you can't see the agenda? Really?

I mean it's so blatant this time around, even though he only has one true agenda guiding all of his posts no matter what angle he tries to do it from. This guy spends all of his time perusing old game stats and footage looking for one thing, anything that he thinks fits his failed crusade.

Lakers Showtime is one of like three or four Lakers fans I can tolerate on here, but ultimately he's still a Lakers fan and has the biases that entails. Fatal is clear as day to those who understand what he's trying to do. Fatal actually knows that, his purpose is to try to infect those people who he thinks will buy is routine. He knows going with the Alpha Wolf, Can't Stop brand of idiocy won't cut it, so he hopes that by saying he's a big Jordan fan and posting manipulated data, he'll convince the naive that "Hey, that Jordan guy was great but not as great as reported, and hey that Kobe is actually closer to him than people want to admit".

[gotbacon23]

he missed the potential game winning 3 in game 5 in 1998. ended up that it didn't matter anyway cause he hit the game winning shot in game 6 two nights later. pippen and jordan both didn't play well in that game 5; jordan was 9 for 26 and missed the game winning 3, pippen as 2 for 16 shooting (0-7 threes) and fouled out. hell, rodman only grabbed 3 rebounds that game. The bulls were in that game cause of Kukoc (11 for 13, 30 points, hit a RIDICULOUS 3 pointer with 5.5 seconds left to put the bulls within one). it wasn't so much "un-clutch" by jordan though cause it was a ridiculously tough shot- there was only 0.8 left on the clock- but he did not play well that game.

this video has kukoc's three:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEKJb...eature=related

and this one has jordan's miss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akzdlW096I&NR=1

but anybody who says he choked for missing that is a fool... that shot was basically impossible.

[LA_Showtime]

From what I've seen, you're a good poster. But you can't see the agenda? Really?

I mean it's so blatant this time around, even though he only has one true agenda guiding all of his posts no matter what angle he tries to do it from. This guy spends all of his time perusing old game stats and footage looking for one thing, anything that he thinks fits his failed crusade.

Yeah, Fatal usually has an agenda.

This thread doesn't bother me though. He's stated that Jordan's the best of all time, but he wants people to know MJ was human like all of the other stars.

[chitownsfinest]

Jordan had anti clutch moments, but a lot of those games you listed came in series where he came through in the clutch more then he didn't come through. In the 89 series, we all know what he did so no point going there. In the 93 series, he scored 17 straight points in the 3rd/4th quarter of game 5 with the Bulls struggling to score and matched Ewing shot for shot and assisted on the game winner. In game 4 which was a close game for the most part, he scored 27 in the second half and 9 in the 4th. In the 97 series against Utah (one of his most clutchest series), he hit two game winners (game 1 and 5), assisted on a game winner in game 6, and averaged over 10 ppg in the 4th quarters of those games. In game 1 of the 98 series against Indy, with the Bulls struggling to score in the first half, he had 20 + points in the second half (Pippen played clutch D as well) to put the game away. In game 2, he again scored 20+ in the second half in a extremely close game including three straight baskets in the final two minutes of the game to put the game away after Indy tied it from a Reggie Miller three pointer. In game 6 of that series, he scored ten points in the last quarter in a close game but Travis Best came through in the clutch as well. In game 7 of that series, he locked down Reggie Miller to 0 field goals in the 4th quarter after Reggie was torching Harper in the first three quarters (Harp played great D on Reggie for most of that series though), pulled down a clutch offensive rebound of a missed ree throw, and bunch of other little things (clutch assist to Longley, and 1 dunk in the 4th quarter, winning a jump ball against a taller player, and getting to the line). In the 92 series against Portland, he scored 10-12 points in the 4th quarter of game 6 of that series to close it out, holds Drexler to 1-6 shooting in his last 6 shots in game 3 of that series, and hits some clutch baskets in the 4th quarter of that game 3 as well.

I have to re-visit that 95 series and the other games you listed were regular season games. Most of those games came in series where MJ came through in the clutch more often then he didn't.

Still waiting for a response to this.

Like the poster above me just stated, there is more to just looking at a couple of missed shots in crunch time to determine if the player came through the clutch or not. There can be other factors such as whether the players teammates came through as well, or maybe the team had only been in the game because the said player who didn't come through in crunch time was playing great for most the game.

[LA_Showtime]

Lakers Showtime is one of like three or four Lakers fans I can tolerate on here, but ultimately he's still a Lakers fan and has the biases that entails. Fatal is clear as day to those who understand what he's trying to do. Fatal actually knows that, his purpose is to try to infect those people who he thinks will buy is routine. He knows going with the Alpha Wolf, Can't Stop brand of idiocy won't cut it, so he hopes that by saying he's a big Jordan fan and posting manipulated data, he'll convince the naive that "Hey, that Jordan guy was great but not as great as reported, and hey that Kobe is actually closer to him than people want to admit".

I pretty much agree with you. If it was a Laker Fatal was talking about, I would probably have a problem with this thread.

[juju151111]

I pretty much agree with you. If it was a Laker Fatal was talking about, I would probably have a problem with this thread.

Exactly, if this was kobe you would see only LA avatars responding. The only person Fatal actually fools is roundball/brans.

[LA_Showtime]

Exactly, if this was kobe you would see only LA avatars responding. The only person Fatal actually fools is roundball/brans.

Yeah, I didn't see all of Jordan's years in the NBA. So for me, seeing some of his failures fascinates me.

If Jordan was in today's league, would people talk about his failures to try and downplay his greatness or would he be even more popular than he was in the late '80s early '90s? Hmmmmm...

[lbj23clutch]

Just when i though fatal was done with this whole ****.

[Fatal9]

Still waiting for a response to this.

What do you want? Did I say he wasn't clutch in most of those series? I'm looking at this from a game by game basis. I've didn't even use the word "choke" (because I don't think Jordan ever really did) just curious to see the # of games where he didn't come through. I'm estimating by the end of this thread we'll have a 100+ incidents, which might surprise some people. This is what made Jordan so clutch, he screws up here and there but in the end he is beating you any which way.

I love how in Jordan's case a long three pointer at the end of regulation shouldn't count but in Kobe's case they don't hesitate to post his FG% at the buzzer (when good chunk of those shots are exactly those long threes with a couple of seconds left). This is the double standard I'm a bit annoyed with.

[lolwut]

oh yeah and remember that time his team ended up losing in the finals?


oh.

nvm.

[BallersTalk]

What do you want? Did I say he wasn't clutch in most of those series? I'm looking at this from a game by game basis. I've didn't even use the word "choke" (because I don't think Jordan ever really did) just curious to see the # of games where he didn't come through. I'm estimating by the end of this thread we'll have a 100+ incidents, which might surprise some people. This is what made Jordan so clutch, he screws up here and there but in the end he is beating you any which way.

I love how in Jordan's case a long three pointer at the end of regulation shouldn't count but in Kobe's case they don't hesitate to post his FG% at the buzzer (when good chunk of those shots are exactly those long threes with a couple of seconds left). This is the double standard I'm a bit annoyed with.

Fatal9 never comes out and says what he really wants to say or what he really wants people to believe.
He wants people to put Kobe on the same pedestal as Jordan.

[juju151111]

Yeah, I didn't see all of Jordan's years in the NBA. So for me, seeing some of his failures fascinates me.

If Jordan was in today's league, would people talk about his failures to try and downplay his greatness or would he be even more popular than he was in the late '80s early '90s? Hmmmmm...

He would be on Kobe/shaq popular level if he played today. That means you don't have to watch BB to know who he is. LOL People taslked about his failures back then too. Read articles from 86-90 when he only won MVPs and stuff. They were ripping him and saying a leading scorer can't win crap, that he not a winner, and he just flashy. After he won in 1991 they pretty much stopped. They started again when the bulls lose to Magic and articles and mags started saying Penny was better then MJ.

[NBASTATMAN]

We all know MJ is the clutchest or at the very least second clutchest (behind Bird) player of all time. But what I am really interested in is to recall/note some of his anti-clutch moments, because you never really hear about them.

I'll start with some, feel free to continue. There are tons of incidents but I haven't really looked or tried to remember that hard. Just listing some for now that I remember.

Lets begin:

Game 4 vs. Cavs in 1989: In the game before "the shot", Jordan missed a last second shot in overtime and missed a crucial freethrow near the end of the game as well.
Jan 23, 1991 vs. Nets: Jordan goes 1-4, and misses three crucial shots as Bulls lose to the Nets 99-95.
March 26, 1991 vs. Nets: misses two clutch free throws with a minute left, and the last shot. Bulls lose 109-107 as a result.
March 2, 1992: Jordan fouls Jeff Malone on the last play of the game and then gets ejected as he can't control his emotions. Jazz win the game due to the freethrows as a result.
June 10, 1992 vs. Blazers (finals): Jordan goes scoreless for the last 10 minutes of the fourth quarter! Blazers tie the series 2-2 after winning a close game.
1993 ECF vs. Knicks (game 6): Goes 0-7 in fourth quarter (Pippen bails Bulls out with clutch shots though).
Game 1 of 1995 series vs. Magic: Jordan's nightmare minute.
Game 4 vs. Jazz (1997): Jordan goes 1-3 in the closing minutes, and turns the ball over on a crucial possession as Stockton took the ball away from him. On the next play, Jordan would miss again on and as a result, the Jazz seal the game.
1998 ECF vs. Pacers, Game 3: Jordan misses crucial FT and the last shot to eliminate any chance of comeback. He would just hit one shot in the last 7 minutes of the game.
1998 ECF vs. Pacers, Game 4: Jordan misses game winning three pointer despite getting a clean look.


What's the point of this thread? Well, one to see that Jordan was human and did fail time and time again in crunchtime (he didn't have the scrutiny of the internet that players now do), and two, it's just interesting and almost bizzare seeing Jordan fail at the end of games (the idea most people seem to have is Jordan probably suceeded like 80% of the time...). I think his fans will find these incidents interesting as well (I know I do!). Again, no one is debating the clutchness of Michael, it's impossible to given his record.

I think we can list hundreds on incidents, I'll keep updating. There are a lot I haven't listed yet but will soon.

Wow Mj is human.. I didn't know that.... Still no other player is even close to this guy when it comes to being clutch... NO OTHER PLAYER.... I can make a much bigger list of choke jobs on other players... Mj shot close to 50 percent on game winning shots... No other player is close..........GREAT POST...