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Thread: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

  1. #16
    Death Before Dishonor Bigsmoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    I might get hate from this but... to me.. the better point guard was easily Isiah.

    People can talk about this leader of the assist bullsh*t as much as as they want. That just mean John Stockton is nothing more than a Warren Moon in basketball. Come to think of it, John Stockton had a great supporting cast himself even if you disincluded Malone. So i guess Thurl Bailey, Jeff Malone, and Jeff Hornacek were all scrubs right?

    Thomas actually can set up players much more effectively than John Stocton could since 90% of his assists werent pick and Rolls to one player "Karl Malone".

    Isiah would easily would of accomplished more team success if both Stockton and Isiah would switch teams.

  2. #17
    Clyde The Glide.
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder
    Yeah and Stockton had 10 straight seasons of 10+ assists per game, and averaged 10.5 per game over a 6 year longer career than Isiah.

    Stockton is better in almost every category other than scoring.

    I'd pick Stockton 10 times out of 10.
    No question, Stockton is the better passer, but he did have a better finisher and player to feed to. Isiah had the better overall team with the Pistons having Joe Dumars, Bill Lambieer, Adrian Dantley, etc..... but Stockton had Karl Malone and he was better than any of those Pistons individually.

    Reality is, When you are comparing greatness, MVPs, Championships and also Finals MVPs will play a role and Isiah has at least one of each except for MVP. Stockton doesn't have any.

    Again, even though Stockton may not have won any, I still see a legit case, Stockton was the better defender, the better passer and shooter, rest belong to Isiah. However, Stockton did frequently get outplayed by inferior PGs and teams, Very Frequently........Some in the playoffs as well.

  3. #18
    Lob City Clips LAClipsFan33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    I'm taking Zeke...

    Killer Instinct. He had it...Stockton didn't

  4. #19
    Local High School Star Bush4Ever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsmoke

    Thomas actually can set up players much more effectively than John Stocton could since 90% of his assists werent pick and Rolls to one player "Karl Malone".
    No they weren't.

    Stockton was OUTSTANDING at running the fast break, and making perfect passes to players in stride, and also at penetrating deep into defenses and kicking it out for wing jump shots, much like Nash in today's game.

  5. #20
    NBA rookie of the year Da_Realist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bush4Ever
    One often ignored factor is that during Isiah's prime years for assists, the overall pace of the game was faster PLUS he played for a fairly fast paced team relative to the era (the Pistons were 4th in pace when Isiah set the assist record).

    By contrast, during Stockton's prime, the game was slowing down somewhat, PLUS he generally played on teams that were average to slow in pace, relative to the league.

    What must also be considered is that Isiah had to tone down his game to fit the team. He was a VERY explosive (and streaky) scorer off the dribble who I think would have broken a few more offensive records if he was given the green light for most of his career. However, for the Pistons to win, he had to play a slow, physical type of basketball that didn't yield itself to his natural game. The fact that he had so many memorable performances from 87 - 90 says a lot about his talent. And his desire to win. Most guards with his ability would have whined day and night if they had to play the late 80's Pistons style of ball.

  6. #21
    Local High School Star Bush4Ever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Realist
    What must also be considered is that Isiah had to tone down his game to fit the team. He was a VERY explosive (and streaky) scorer off the dribble who I think would have broken a few more offensive records if he was given the green light for most of his career. However, for the Pistons to win, he had to play a slow, physical type of basketball that didn't yield itself to his natural game. The fact that he had so many memorable performances from 87 - 90 says a lot about his talent. And his desire to win. Most guards with his ability would have whined day and night if they had to play the late 80's Pistons style of ball.
    If they had played a breaking, hectic style of ball in the late 80s/early 90s, Isiah would have zero rings.

    That benefited him and his legacy more than it detracted from his legacy.

  7. #22
    NBA rookie of the year Da_Realist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    A previous thread with some good points on both sides...

    http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74988

  8. #23
    Death Before Dishonor Bigsmoke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bush4Ever
    No they weren't.

    Stockton was OUTSTANDING at running the fast break, and making perfect passes to players in stride, and also at penetrating deep into defenses and kicking it out for wing jump shots, much like Nash in today's game.
    and Isiah wasnt?

    Stockton had speed and had a very high I.Q. Stockton was a Clutch player whoever said he wasnt... he shot that game winner against the Rockets on game 6 back in 97.

    To me, Stockton doesnt changes game tempos like Isiah did. Thats a fact. Maybe i need to watch more of his games because i see nothing but pick in rolls most of the time when i see some of the classic Jazz games on NBATV.
    Last edited by Bigsmoke; 08-07-2009 at 09:36 PM.

  9. #24
    Formerly luigi>mario Luigi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAClipsFan33
    I'm taking Zeke...

    Killer Instinct. He had it...Stockton didn't
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDi0...om=PL&index=24

    That's all I want as far as killer instinct goes from my point. Leave it to the bigger players to kill it. You gotta qb if your the point.

  10. #25
    NBA rookie of the year Da_Realist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bush4Ever
    If they had played a breaking, hectic style of ball in the late 80s/early 90s, Isiah would have zero rings.

    That benefited him and his legacy more than it detracted from his legacy.
    Yeah...it's tricky. How much does personal achievement outweigh team success?

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDi0...om=PL&index=24

    That's all I want as far as killer instinct goes from my point. Leave it to the bigger players to kill it. You gotta qb if your the point.
    Stockton is one of the 10 most clutch players in nba History. I don't know where this guy is coming from.

  12. #27
    Lob City Clips LAClipsFan33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luigi
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDi0...om=PL&index=24

    That's all I want as far as killer instinct goes from my point. Leave it to the bigger players to kill it. You gotta qb if your the point.
    Isaiah used to take over games and make it a point to kill the guy in front of him if they had a scrub on him. Stockton never did this...it wasn't his style.

    I'm not taking anything away from Stockton as an overall player...I just personally prefer a more ballsy PG. GP is probably my fav PG of all time because he went so hard on the guy that was guarding him but still ran the offense really smooth.

  13. #28
    Local High School Star Bush4Ever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsmoke
    and Isiah wasnt?

    Stockton had speed and had a very high I.Q. Stockton was a Clutch player whoever said he wasnt... he shot that game winner against the Rockets on game 6 back in 97.

    To me, Stockton doesnt changes game tempos like Isiah did. Thats a fact. Maybe i need to watch more of his games because i see nothing much pick in rolls most of the time when i see some of the classic Jazz games on NBATV.
    Did I say that?

    Stockton was better though, yes. Stockton was comparable to Magic in terms of running an efficient fast break.

    They both have their strengths and weaknesses. You say Isiah changes a game's tempo more than Stockton. I might point to Stockton's vastly superior numbers in terms of shooting and passing efficiency. As an example, even though Stockton played a f-ton of years, he averaged an amazing 4 assists per turnover, while Isiah averaged 2.5 per turnover.

    I think with this question, you really have to look at the whole picture, because they each have very real advantages over the other in various aspects of the game.

    Isiah would be my choice, everything considered, but it isn't a no-contest by any means. It's very close.

  14. #29
    Lob City Clips LAClipsFan33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by magnax1
    Stockton is one of the 10 most clutch players in nba History. I don't know where this guy is coming from.
    He would take the big shot yes, but he didn't take over games like I wanted him to. There were many games where I would watch him and didn't think he was aggressive enough.

  15. #30
    Local High School Star Bush4Ever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Realist
    Yeah...it's tricky. How much does personal achievement outweigh team success?
    The jump from zero rings to one ring is the most important jump when you are comparing elite players.

    Every single player on my top 10 list has at least one lead player ring, and most have 2-4 rings.

    Some people may call it unfortunate, but that's the way it is. I also don't feel that bad about leaning on the rings in this argument, because Stockton had a few chances to win rings. It isn't like he was stuck on scrub teams.

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