Someone explain what makes Iverson a cancer?

[imlmf]

because no team can win a championship with him being a major part of the rotation, and he hasn't prove otherwise

[iamgine]

Back in Philly, his playoff record barring that 1 year going to the finals was 17-23. But I think he was still considered pretty good in Philly before traded to Denver.

In Denver, there was just such a huge expectation for him and he failed to deliver. He was supposed to be the team leader and facilitator ala Billups. Instead they only won 1 game out of 9 playoff matches, and out both seasons in first round. We blamed George Karl for all of this if anyone remember.

People were disappointed, but then he was traded to Detroit, for the same expectation, to lead the team. The term 'cancer' started to be voiced strongly here. When Billups arrived in Denver, they suddenly start winning and when Iverson arrived in Detroit, they suddenly start losing. To make matters worse, as soon as Iverson was injured, Detroit start winning again. And even after that, when asked to do a reduced role, he refused and appeared to act childishly.

The latest reason has been his move to Memphis instead of a contender. This further strengthen people's suspicion that he just care about himself and not the team to win the championship, so to speak.

I don't know if he really is a cancer or not or if any of the reports are true but it is understandable to call him that based on what is reported.

[Richie2k6]

First off he was never a cancer in Philly so I won't even bother going into that.

When he went to Denver, nobody knew what to expect. Half the fans and media thought it would be a complete failure and half the fans and media thought they would got o the WCF. The outcome ended up in between. Many things factored into this. Suspensions, injuries, and of course the fact that everybody had to get accustomed to a new player in AI. Not to mention both times the Nuggets lost in the playoffs, it was against the future winners of the championship. Iverson's shots went down, his points maintained high, his assists maintained high, his field goal percentage went up and they won 50 games.

The Nuggets have never matched up well against the Lakers so losing to them was sort of inevitable. Against the Spurs it was, like I said, suspensions and injuries that led to that team not forming a good chemistry. The team never got a chance to get into a rhythm. Throughout all of Iverson's time in the playoffs his numbers were fine except his FG% in his first playoff series with Denver. Iverson going to Denver was a gamble that didn't pay off. It was nobody's fault, it just wasn't meant to be. Iverson did just about everything he could have done but he just wasn't a good fit there. (And you're damn right George Karl factored into that, even if in a small way).

When he went to Detroit, that was pretty much a pointless thing to do. I'd like to get a few things straight here...

1. Nobody expected AI to come in and rejuvenate the dying Pistons and lead them to a title
2. Nobody expected AI to come in and average 10 assists
3. The team didn't get worse when Iverson arrived, they got worse when Billups LEFT.

I can't stress that last one though. Iverson didn't kill the Pistons, they were already on life support. Billups leaving was the final nail in the coffin that put the Pistons from ECF contenders year in and year out to barely playoff competitors. Bringing in AI was a "hey, maybe this guy can win us a couple more games and sell a few tickets, and if it doesn't work out, we get 20mil in our pockets" type of deal. The fact that AI was in the last year of his contract was an ENORMOUS factor as to why he even went there in the first place. The expectations were never sky high when AI went there, it was a "lets see what happens" situation. And what happened? The Pistons, who were already going down hill, added a player who simply doesn't fit into their style of play. That's not Iverson's fault, that's management's fault. If you don't want an Allen Iverson type of a player on your team, don't bring in Allen Iverson. And Michael Curry sucks, by the way.

On the other hand Billups was the perfect fit for Denver. AND they were getting much better regardless, unlike the Pistons who were doing the opposite. Young guys like Smith and Carmelo were only getting better while guys like Sheed and Rip were only getting worse. Chris Andersen and Nene came back strong while that was barely happening in Detroit. Add in the fact that the Nuggets got what they needed, a true veteran PG, and they were on the road to success.

People need to start realizing the point of a trade. You 1. LOSE a player, you 2. GAIN a player. The Pistons fell apart after number 1. Just because AI didn't put the Nuggets on the road to success like Chauncey, doesn't mean he held them back from it. Cancers kill teams. Iverson never killed teams, he just didn't be the saving grace that took teams to the top. There's a difference.

[magnax1]

No team can ever win a title with a 6'0 shooting guard hoisting up 25-30 shots per game.

He's a great player, but again, just not one that can carry his own team to a Championship. He also cannot be a solid role player because he commands the ball to be effective. He can't play off the ball.

He was actually pretty good playing off the ball in Philly, its just that some really stupid coaches try to play him at point to much and that generally is a horrible thing for the offense. AI at point guard is always a bad thing.

[gpfanz]

When he went to Detroit, that was pretty much a pointless thing to do. I'd like to get a few things straight here...

1. Nobody expected AI to come in and rejuvenate the dying Pistons and lead them to a title

I do not think Pistons brought him in to just make the Playoffs

[iamgine]

First off he was never a cancer in Philly so I won't even bother going into that.

When he went to Denver, nobody knew what to expect. Half the fans and media thought it would be a complete failure and half the fans and media thought they would got o the WCF. The outcome ended up in between. Many things factored into this. Suspensions, injuries, and of course the fact that everybody had to get accustomed to a new player in AI. Not to mention both times the Nuggets lost in the playoffs, it was against the future winners of the championship. Iverson's shots went down, his points maintained high, his assists maintained high, his field goal percentage went up and they won 50 games.

The Nuggets have never matched up well against the Lakers so losing to them was sort of inevitable. Against the Spurs it was, like I said, suspensions and injuries that led to that team not forming a good chemistry. The team never got a chance to get into a rhythm. Throughout all of Iverson's time in the playoffs his numbers were fine except his FG% in his first playoff series with Denver. Iverson going to Denver was a gamble that didn't pay off. It was nobody's fault, it just wasn't meant to be. Iverson did just about everything he could have done but he just wasn't a good fit there. (And you're damn right George Karl factored into that, even if in a small way).

When he went to Detroit, that was pretty much a pointless thing to do. I'd like to get a few things straight here...

1. Nobody expected AI to come in and rejuvenate the dying Pistons and lead them to a title
2. Nobody expected AI to come in and average 10 assists
3. The team didn't get worse when Iverson arrived, they got worse when Billups LEFT.

I can't stress that last one though. Iverson didn't kill the Pistons, they were already on life support. Billups leaving was the final nail in the coffin that put the Pistons from ECF contenders year in and year out to barely playoff competitors. Bringing in AI was a "hey, maybe this guy can win us a couple more games and sell a few tickets, and if it doesn't work out, we get 20mil in our pockets" type of deal. The fact that AI was in the last year of his contract was an ENORMOUS factor as to why he even went there in the first place. The expectations were never sky high when AI went there, it was a "lets see what happens" situation. And what happened? The Pistons, who were already going down hill, added a player who simply doesn't fit into their style of play. That's not Iverson's fault, that's management's fault. If you don't want an Allen Iverson type of a player on your team, don't bring in Allen Iverson. And Michael Curry sucks, by the way.

On the other hand Billups was the perfect fit for Denver. AND they were getting much better regardless, unlike the Pistons who were doing the opposite. Young guys like Smith and Carmelo were only getting better while guys like Sheed and Rip were only getting worse. Chris Andersen and Nene came back strong while that was barely happening in Detroit. Add in the fact that the Nuggets got what they needed, a true veteran PG, and they were on the road to success.

People need to start realizing the point of a trade. You 1. LOSE a player, you 2. GAIN a player. The Pistons fell apart after number 1. Just because AI didn't put the Nuggets on the road to success like Chauncey, doesn't mean he held them back from it. Cancers kill teams. Iverson never killed teams, he just didn't be the saving grace that took teams to the top. There's a difference.

All that doesn't matter. What people see is what they interpret.

And what people see is:

1. Iverson went to Detroit who always make the finals and the franchise just suddenly died, Billups went to a mediocre Denver and they just flourished like crazy.
2. Detroit suddenly winning again when Iverson is out injured.
3. Iverson's childish antics to the already delicate situation.
4. His latest move to the non-contender Memphis.

Surely it's understandable if people say he's a cancer. It might not be true, but surely not too far reaching. By the way, the term 'cancer' is thrown pretty loosely, no player can kill team by themselves. There's always involvement from management.

[stephanieg]

Cancer? That's a bit melodramatic.

Iverson is a modern day Maravich.

He combines high usage with low efficiency and high turn overs. And bad defense. To the casual fan this doesn't matter because he scores a lot of points, is very entertaining while doing so, and carries himself with a lot of bravado. But he is not an MVP or all time caliber player when seriously analyzed.

At the same time we can appreciate his abilities while understanding the above, intellectually speaking. Like Maravich.

[Richie2k6]

All that doesn't matter.

How does that "not matter"?

What people see is what they interpret.

So because people judge a situation and not look at it deeper, what they judge is right? Okay then, that's a great philosophy to live by.

1. Iverson went to Detroit who always make the finals and the franchise just suddenly died, Billups went to a mediocre Denver and they just flourished like crazy.

Just addressed this in my post. I don't see why you try to simplify it in a way that makes Iverson look bad. I just explained the entire situation yet you're dwindling it down to a couple of sentences that summarize to Iverson being a cancer. That's not fair at all.

2. Detroit suddenly winning again when Iverson is out injured.

What are the numbers for this, I'm curious to know what exactly they are.

3. Iverson's childish antics to the already delicate situation.

I wouldn't say that a 25ppg 7apg player saying he deserves to start is childish. Saying he'd retire if he didn't start is a bit too much though.

4. His latest move to the non-contender Memphis.

This has nothing to do with him being a cancer, it's because there aren't many teams that want him. Doesn't mean he hurt teams, just means there's no team out there that is a fit for him.

[RedZiggyZag]

Calling him a Cancer is overreacting and it's something your average fan that doesn't look inside the scenes enough to make a serious judgement. It's obviously reasonable to call him a cancer though.

I mean he hasn't won anything....Here reasons why people call him a cancer, I don't feel this way, but these reasons seem to be pretty reasonable.

1. He hasn't been relevant to winning since 2001.
2. 1996 - Allen Iverson + 4 wins, That's what happened after Iverson was drafted, and that doesn't look good if you compare him to other 1st overall pick rookies.
3. He failed to win the 2004 Gold Medal, despite having a pretty dominant team and that was the only time he was actually apart of the US Team
4. Carmelo Anthony's scoring went down when Iverson arrived, Melo was the scoring leader at that point before Iverson came.
5. Iverson missed the playoffs with the 76ers for the last 2 seasons with the 76ers, but one season after Iverson left, the 76ers made the playoffs
6. Pistons became irrelevant and the most inconsistent team in the league when Iverson arrived.

If you don't think it's reasonable, you might be too big of an AI fan, but Cancer or Not Cancer, it's certainly debatable.

[AmoebaD]

his mere presence eats teams from the inside out. the immune system of his teammates, and coaches and staff for that matter, have been shown to deteriorate the longer he is with his current host team. once he has been dispelled from the blood stream, he just moves on to the next victim.

he is more of a flesh eating virus or dustin hoffman outbreak kinda deal.

[G.O.A.T]

Allen Iverson is a special player, the smallest MVP ever and the smallest single superstar to lead a team to the finals.

He is not nor has he ever been a cancer as a team mate.

He has however reached a point of his career where his negative attributes could attract a lot more attention the his positive one if he's not careful.

He is a selfish person by nature, but not as a basketball player.

People are going to like and dislike AI for the following reasons:

1) We're talking about Practice...-That's pisses people off. they argue he makes millions of dollars for playing a game and he can't even show up when he is supposed to" Yes that's an endlessly flawed argument, but it's a popular feeling that casual fans of the game have and fuel for the fire for haters. fuel he provided.

2) Stats...-You can make an argument that he is a great passer or a ball hog based on stats, that he's a great scorer or a super chucker. If you watched him play at his best you'd now the truth, but when you haven't it's easy to make assumptions.

3) Detroit...-It was not his fault. Richie hit the nail on the head, the Pistons got worse and the Nuggets better because of Billups, not Iverson. Billups is not the player Iverson is skill wise but his strengths compliment a team much better then Iverson's. Iverson's mistake in Detroit was refusing to accept his role and quiting on the team. That will be unforgivable for a lot of people.

At this point of his career he is a bench player but his ego won't let him accept that. He's not a bench player because he's not good enough to start, but because that's where his skill set best fits within the construct of a good team.

He has broken down over the last two years as you'd expect from a player who gave everything he had all the time prior to that. He can't carry a team anymore and he knows no other way to play. He can however carry a second unit and give you a playmaker in the clutch and in the postseason.

In the 80's and 90's guys like Eddie Johnson, Ricky Pierce, Kevin McHale and many more great offensive players moved to the bench in the late stages of their career and became very vital parts of very good teams.

[Richie2k6]

4. Carmelo Anthony's scoring went down when Iverson arrived, Melo was the scoring leader at that point before Iverson came.

This is the most useless fact I've seen in this thread. It means absolutely nothing. Carmelo's FG% and 3PT% both went UP when Iverson arrived. Plus Iverson's FG% went up, and the Nuggets won 50 games. Nobody cares that Melo's PPG went down by 3. If you asked Melo I'm sure he'd gladly take 50 wins and 26 ppg over 45 wins and 29 ppg. This is like penalizing Pau Gasol for making Kobe's PPG go down when he arrived. It's completely irrelevant because it helped the team.

6. Pistons became irrelevant and the most inconsistent team in the league when Iverson arrived.

...Which they were going to be doing regardless.

[oh the horror]

Wasnt there a series of games where Hamilton went down, and Iverson was in, and the Pistons were also winning games then as well?

[G.O.A.T]

Wasnt there a series of games where Hamilton went down, and Iverson was in, and the Pistons were also winning games then as well?

Exactly.

They were at their best when either Hamilton or Iverson were inactive because both were unhappy off the bench or splitting minutes.

[iamgine]

Calling him a Cancer is overreacting and it's something your average fan that doesn't look inside the scenes enough to make a serious judgement. It's obviously reasonable to call him a cancer though.

I mean he hasn't won anything....Here reasons why people call him a cancer, I don't feel this way, but these reasons seem to be pretty reasonable.

1. He hasn't been relevant to winning since 2001.
2. 1996 - Allen Iverson + 4 wins, That's what happened after Iverson was drafted, and that doesn't look good if you compare him to other 1st overall pick rookies.
3. He failed to win the 2004 Gold Medal, despite having a pretty dominant team and that was the only time he was actually apart of the US Team
4. Carmelo Anthony's scoring went down when Iverson arrived, Melo was the scoring leader at that point before Iverson came.
5. Iverson missed the playoffs with the 76ers for the last 2 seasons with the 76ers, but one season after Iverson left, the 76ers made the playoffs
6. Pistons became irrelevant and the most inconsistent team in the league when Iverson arrived.

If you don't think it's reasonable, you might be too big of an AI fan, but Cancer or Not Cancer, it's certainly debatable.

+1

Like I said, what people see is what they interpret. It's really open to interpretation. There's no real 'right' one.

For example, people can interpret, "why wasn't Iverson willing to change the way he play to benefit the team as he get older. Or come from the bench for the team? What a selfish ass. Skipping practice, not willing to play defense, no wonder he get thrown around like a worthless scrub."

The evidence are kinda stacked against him. It's definitely reasonable.