Legendary John Wooden says Kobe is the GOAT

[Soopa]

Jordan fanatics are furious! God forbid anyone else have there own opinion and say someone besides Jordan is the GOAT.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I agree with him. Two words: mass media. Why do you think in every sport--whether it is basketball, football, hockey, NASCAR, F1, golf, or tennis (the only exception is baseball and that is because of the steroids era anomaly)--the majority GOAT just happened to be around in the past 20-25 years? It isn't a string of amazing coincidences or that generation in a given sport was not better than every previous one. The decisive factor was mass media. The most recent top-tier great gets the most hype and this converts most people into believing he is the GOAT. The other factor, albeit a lesser one, is recency. People simply remember what they saw most recently better. In some cases they may never have seen a previous great. It is easier to say MJ or Tiger is the GOAT when you remember his greatness compared to other greats who you did not see contemporaneously. Therefore:

Basketball: Kobe? Lebron?>Jordan>Kareem>Russell>Mikan
Football QB's: Manning? or Brady?>Montanta>Unitas
Hockey: Gretzky>Howe
NASCAR: Johnson?>Earnhardt>Petty>Jarrett
F1: Hamilton?>Schumacher>Senna>Stewart>Fangio
Golf: Tiger>Nicklaus>whoever was before that (Jones?)
Tennis: Federer>Sampras>whoever was before that (McEnroe?)

Except you don't see Kobe hyped as the greatest to ever play much by the media. A lot of people were calling Jordan the greatest to ever player the game even in the late 80's. I remember the majority thinking that by the time Jordan won his 3rd title. That was when Jordan was 30 and had 9 seasons under his belt. Kobe is 31 and in his 14th season. If he was going to be remembered as the greatest to play the game by the majority then I'd think we'd hear more of it by now.

Plus Kobe isn't as likeable or marketable as Jordan. You don't see Kobe Bryant commercials all across TV like you saw Jordan commercials. Remember all of those Ballpark hotdogs, Hanes, McDonalds commercials ect.?

[ProfessorMurder]

Jordan fanatics are furious! God forbid anyone else have there own opinion and say someone besides Jordan is the GOAT.

It's the fact that everyone gorging on Kobe's balls starts a thread whenever someone says he's the best. It's f*cking annoying.

Would you want a thread every two minutes of a quote saying Jordan is the best? No.

If everyone just stopped making these threads this site would be infinitely better.

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol the irony.

What irony? Do you even know what the word means? What heights did Jordan not come close to reaching? Jordan proved everything there is to prove on the court in terms of production, accolades, and winning (the 3 main components of GOAT rankings). Kobe hasn't even come close in any respect.

[DavisWarriorsFan]

John Wooden? Who's that?

You're an idiot if you don't know who John Wooden is.

[DavisWarriorsFan]

Who the sh!t is John Wooden?

It sounds like he's an attention whore.

[lbj23clutch]

It does matter. Most people consider MJ the GOAT due to the mass media campaign. Jordan being the GOAT is passed off as fact in the media. The media made him the GOAT and they will displace him with another player. Things like Wooden's comment gets the ball rolling for the media hype machine. Do you remember the "Kobe chasing MJ's 6 rings" hype last summer? What is implicit in that is that if he gets to 6 he=MJ and if he surpasses that...The media has set this up. I am pretty sure in 10-20 years MJ will no longer be the majority GOAT. The same forces the made him the majority GOAT will displace him with Lebron or Kobe. I for one will love watching MJ fans squirm as it happens, whether it is Lebron or Kobe.

The media has nothing to do with most people thinking MJ as bieng the consious GOAT, people who have watched his games and have seen all of his accomplishments, know he has earned his legendary GOAT status. Media didn't give MJ this status, he has earned them with his 6 rings, 6 finals MVP's, 5 league MVP's, 10 scoring titles, 2 gold medals, and I can go on and on, but his accomplishments are immeasurable and this is just only one of plenty of other reasons why most people conclude him to be the GOAT.

[lbj23clutch]

Except you don't see Kobe hyped as the greatest to ever play much by the media. A lot of people were calling Jordan the greatest to ever player the game even in the late 80's. I remember the majority thinking that by the time Jordan won his 3rd title. That was when Jordan was 30 and had 9 seasons under his belt. Kobe is 31 and in his 14th season. If he was going to be remembered as the greatest to play the game by the majority then I'd think we'd hear more of it by now.

Plus Kobe isn't as likeable or marketable as Jordan. You don't see Kobe Bryant commercials all across TV like you saw Jordan commercials. Remember all of those Ballpark hotdogs, Hanes, McDonalds commercials ect.?

Great post.

[Roundball_Rock]

Except you don't see Kobe hyped as the greatest to ever play much by the media

Yeah but remember the "Kobe chasing MJ" hype last summer? The implication is that if Kobe can get to 6 or even more he is equal to or better than Jordan.

The significance of Wooden's comment is that it will push the ball forward. Most people today would not be surprised if Kobe winds up top 5 all-time. A year ago few people believed that.

I agree that Kobe did not have as much hype and no one in sports history has had as big a marketing campaign behind him as MJ. Kobe's ascension, if it happens, would be a bit odd for these reasons. Lebron rising to the mass media GOAT is more predictable, but if Kobe can get to 6 or more rings than the media will have to call an audible, if only temporarily. Kobe vs. MJ is a great story that delivers ratings.

It's the fact that everyone gorging on Kobe's balls starts a thread whenever someone says he's the best. It's f*cking annoying.

How is that any different than MJ fans shooting down any other great player when someone says another player is the GOAT (i.e. the Kareem GOAT thread)?

Someone saying MJ is the GOAT is not news; a person with the prestige of Wooden saying Kobe is the GOAT is news, at least at this point

What heights did Jordan not come close to reaching? Jordan proved everything there is to prove on the court in terms of production, accolades, and winning (the 3 main components of GOAT rankings). Kobe hasn't even come close in any respect

Jordan never reached the Gretzky height that MJ fans pretend he did by declaring him the "clear GOAT" and scoffing at any other GOAT candidate's case. MJ fans cling to anything to maintain their view. Look at the emphasis they place on FMVP's simply because MJ conveniently has more of them than anyone else and because he is unlikely to ever be eclipsed in that regard because it is hard to fathom another top-tier great having as great luck as Jordan did.

The media has nothing to do with most people thinking MJ as bieng the consious GOAT,

Do you really believe that?

Federer>Sampras>everyone before that
Tiger>Nicklaus>Jones?>everyone before that
Manning or Brady?>Montana>Unitas
Johnson?>Earnhardt>Petty>Jarrett
Schumacher>Senna>Stewart>Fangio
Jordan>Kareem>Russell>Mikan
Gretzky>Howe>everyone before that

Is it just a coincidence the most recent top-tier great always wins? The media has nothing to do with it? There is a consistent sequential trend in sport after sport (except baseball).

[Abraham Lincoln]

It does matter. Most people consider MJ the GOAT due to the mass media campaign. Jordan being the GOAT is passed off as fact in the media. The media made him the GOAT and they will displace him with another player. Things like Wooden's comment gets the ball rolling for the media hype machine. Do you remember the "Kobe chasing MJ's 6 rings" hype last summer? What is implicit in that is that if he gets to 6 he=MJ and if he surpasses that...The media has set this up. I am pretty sure in 10-20 years MJ will no longer be the majority GOAT. The same forces the made him the majority GOAT will displace him with Lebron or Kobe. I for one will love watching MJ fans squirm as it happens, whether it is Lebron or Kobe.

Sorry Bryant fan, but nobody aside from marquee superstar ass kissers give a damn about perception over the proper reality. That indeed includes Jordan fans and Bryant fans like yourself.

[ProfessorMurder]

How is that any different than MJ fans shooting down any other great player when someone says another player is the GOAT (i.e. the Kareem GOAT thread)?

Someone saying MJ is the GOAT is not news; a person with the prestige of Wooden saying Kobe is the GOAT is news, at least at this point

I said I didn't like either. But for the record shooting down a player is easier than propping one up out of his league(i.e. this thread).

Wooden having an OPINION doesn't make it news, or a fact. Nothing in the world is different than before he said it.

[Jacks3]

What irony? Do you even know what the word means? What heights did Jordan not come close to reaching? Jordan proved everything there is to prove on the court in terms of production, accolades, and winning (the 3 main components of GOAT rankings). Kobe hasn't even come close in any respect.

You're right. You're just a hypocrite.

[amfirst]

I'm surprise the Jordan groupies haven't bust out the stat sheets.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yeah but remember the "Kobe chasing MJ" hype last summer? The implication is that if Kobe can get to 6 or even more he is equal to or better than Jordan.

The significance of Wooden's comment is that it will push the ball forward. Most people today would not be surprised if Kobe winds up top 5 all-time. A year ago few people believed that.

I agree that Kobe did not have as much hype and no one in sports history has had as big a marketing campaign behind him as MJ. Kobe's ascension, if it happens, would be a bit odd for these reasons. Lebron rising to the mass media GOAT is more predictable, but if Kobe can get to 6 or more rings than the media will have to call an audible, if only temporarily. Kobe vs. MJ is a great story that delivers ratings.

I could see Lebron ending up being considered the best player to play the game if he wins a few championships, particularly in New York, but I don't see it happening with Kobe.

And personally I see almost no chance of Kobe being a top 5 player when it's all said and done. I don't see what he could do that would rank him above Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Bird or Wilt. Honestly, I don't see myself ranking him over Olajuwon.

[Roundball_Rock]

Sorry Bryant fan, but nobody aside from marquee superstar ass kissers give a damn about perception over the proper reality. That indeed includes Jordan fans and Bryant fans like yourself.

Perception is reality.

I couldn't care less if Kobe becomes the mass media GOAT. Whether it is Lebron, Kobe, John Wall, or whoever I will just be laughing through the whole process at the reaction from MJ fans.

How can anyone really think it is just a coincidence that the "majority GOAT" in every sport just happens to be the most recent top-tier great?

I could see Lebron ending up being considered the best player to play the game if he wins a few championships, particularly in New York, but I don't see it happening with Kobe.

And personally I see almost no chance of Kobe being a top 5 player when it's all said and done. I don't see what he could do that would rank him above Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Bird or Wilt. Honestly, I don't see myself ranking him over Olajuwon.

You are a student of the game. You won't be influenced by what ESPN or some columnist says--most fans, though, will. I am referring to the masses, not people like you.

I agree that it would be odd to suddenly hype him as the GOAT or even a GOAT candidate and Lebron would be more logical but if Kobe gets to 6 rings it will be too tempting a story for the sports media.