Can a casino ban a person from coming in because he's winning too much?

[Meticode]

or are you a bot

Bots suck. You suck.

[BurningHammer]

or are you a bot

Much sadder when there is a person pretending to be a bot. On an irrelevant message board, no less.

[baudkarma]

Casinos in Atlantic City are not allowed to ban anyone for any reason. They can ban a person for cheating, of course, but counting cards is not considered cheating unless the counter uses some device to help them keep track. That's why casinos in AC use an 8 deck shoe and reshuffle when the deck is about 50% exhausted.

[warriorfan]

I used to be pretty good at counting cards. It’s super simple. It’s just counting. It does take a little practice to do it. At a big game, it can start moving quickly and be tricky. There used to be this card house right by a place me and some people would hang out at a lot. I would stop by quite often and immediately look for the double deck blackjack table....You can only really gain a good advantage in single or double deck, anything else it gets shitty. I never trust the big ass shoes they have where you don’t even see them load them. Anyways if they didn’t have the table open I would ask them to open the table. If the table was open I wouldn’t play, I would get some coffee and watch the table and count, sometimes the deck never gets too favorable so you don’t even play, anyways the best advatange comes down to the end of the deck, by that point you know what’s coming for sure pretty much, if there’s lots of face cards, that’s good, when there’s tons of face cards the dealer busts a huge percentage of a time. So you watch the table, wait for a good deck to play out, and on the last hand or two you hop in and make a large bet, and look for doubling down. I would quite often make a few hundred bucks in 15 mins or so and leave.

They started having people that worked for the casino but not obviously, plain clothed people, come up to me and not threaten me but just have a conversation like how is everything doing are you enjoying the game, comment saying I’m doing well. I’m pretty sure they were trying to distract my counts and letting me know that they are keeping an eye on me. I kept doing it but would stick to the hit and run technique.

[NugzFan]

Casinos in Atlantic City are not allowed to ban anyone for any reason.

this cant be true

any business can ban anyone for almost any non race/gender/religious reason.

if they dont like you, they can kick you out. they wouldnt do that of course because they want your money

[AKA_AAP]

We went through this months ago.

You can't beat roulette. The mathematics of the game are really really simple. Every bet you make carries an expected loss. End of story.

You haven't found a way to beat it. That would violate a large amount of probability theory - something that would be far more impressive than cleaning up at a casino.

Any game in a casino is beatable, even roulette. There are unintentional leaks. Either through procedure, promotions, or just sloppy dealers. And to answer the question of the thread...yes, a casino can ban anyone for winning too much. And their determination of what is too much can vary by a lot.

[NugzFan]

Any game in a casino is beatable, even roulette. There are unintentional leaks. Either through procedure, promotions, or just sloppy dealers. And to answer the question of the thread...yes, a casino can ban anyone for winning too much. And their determination of what is too much can vary by a lot.

"yeah, casino games are totally beatable! please come and play!"

-every casino in the world

[AKA_AAP]

"yeah, casino games are totally beatable! please come and play!"

-every casino in the world

That's a simple and uninformed way of looking at it. Casino games are not immune to having leaks and/or sloppy dealers. Leaks don't happen very often, and get fixed as soon as the casino finds out how an advantage player at a casino took them for a quarter million in a month. There are certain games where a sloppy dealer consistently exposes one of their own cards, and this happens even more rarely on a double deck blackjack game. But it does happen, and it's more than enough to turn around the house edge to a significant player edge. Even craps and roulette will occasionally have leaks outside the state of Nevada, due to certain gaming rules.

[GimmeThat]

I think the question here is, can you ban someone from practicing the glory hole in the adult movie store because the store isn't selling enough movies/accessories while someone's doing the glory hole.

the correct answer is "better her, than my daughter"

[72-10]

yes, they certainly can, but it would have to be a certain amount of money - I believe they cannot legally ban someone on the grounds of winning too much without the winner having first attained sufficient funds for a lifetime, which means it is probably set at a real world amount of money

this is sort of a real world concept that probably has its own page in encyclopedias and dictionaries, as well as college/university courses on the subject, but I forget the name of the concept. Perhaps someone could fill OP in, or you could try searching through an encyclopedia's subcategories under the Category:Casinos

I think it's called Imminent Win

if you wanted to master the topic you'd probably want to take Win Probability or whatever relevant statistics courses there are at a college

[72-10]

anyways casinos have a lot of discretion with the law, they can be very tight with other areas of the business practice, and so there's lots of other reasons they can ban someone from their grounds, but they can't immediately ban someone for the sole reason of winning reasonable amounts of money since it's the main purpose of their business because that would be too unfair to the end user and thereby make them an unfair, unethical business practice.

[baudkarma]

this cant be true

any business can ban anyone for almost any non race/gender/religious reason.

if they dont like you, they can kick you out. they wouldnt do that of course because they want your money

It is true. In 1979 a gambler named Ken Uston filed a lawsuit against an Atlantic City casino after they banned him for card counting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Uston

"He was banned from casinos around the world and would adopt various costumes in order to conceal his identity and still be able to play. He filed a high-profile lawsuit against these casinos and successfully received a ruling from the New Jersey courts that absent a valid New Jersey Casino Commission regulation excluding card counters, casinos could not ban someone simply for counting cards at blackjack. In response, many casinos changed their systems, increasing the number of decks in games or changing rules to increase the house edge. "

If you google "Uston v. Resorts International Hotel" you'll find dozens of web pages that reference or summarize the case.

[baudkarma]

Casinos in Atlantic City are not allowed to ban anyone for any reason. They can ban a person for cheating, of course, but counting cards is not considered cheating unless the counter uses some device to help them keep track. That's why casinos in AC use an 8 deck shoe and reshuffle when the deck is about 50% exhausted.

I reread this earlier message and I realize that I phrased it awkwardly. I did not mean to imply that New Jersey casinos can't ban a customer if he's outright cheating or causing a disturbance or otherwise endangering other customers. What I meant to say is that the Jersey courts ruled that casinos in that state cannot refuse to do business with a gambler simply because he's a good player and wins a lot.

[insidehoops]

Popular opinion, I THINK, is that when you win a lot, the casino wants you to stick around, because the more you gamble them the more the odds, which favor the house, come into effect.

I guess it would be interesting what happens if someone wins a lot, and the casino comps them a free room, and they... just keep on winning.

[baudkarma]

Popular opinion, I THINK, is that when you win a lot, the casino wants you to stick around, because the more you gamble them the more the odds, which favor the house, come into effect.

I guess it would be interesting what happens if someone wins a lot, and the casino comps them a free room, and they... just keep on winning.

I'm sure there are a lot of factors that the casino takes into consideration. Back in 2012 and 2013, Phil Ivey played Baccarat at Crockfords in London and the Borgata in Atlantic City. The house edge in Baccarat is over 1%, yet Ivey played several sessions in in both places, and won over $10 million from each of them. He had all sorts of odd requests regarding decks and dealers and so forth, which the casinos granted. You can guess that they were comping him more than just a room as well. And yet they let him keep coming back to play and win some more. At some point you would think that somebody in management would have said "Hey... this guy is one of the smartest gamblers in the world, and he's winning big and winning consistently. Maybe there's more than just luck involved?"

Both casinos sued Ivey to get their money back, and he eventually settled out of court. Youtube has a repost of a 60 Minutes piece where Ivey discusses the situation and describes how he got the advantage, and why he doesn't feel it was cheating.