The All-Choke Team

[raekwon]

swap Billups for Arenas

[creepingdeath]

I disagree here. I think Dirk is the main reason why his team struggled. That team should have beat those Spurs. They were more talented, deeper, had more momentum. They should have won.

It's difficult being a Dirk teammate because Dirk is so one-dimensional that it forces his teammates to pick up the slack for his shortcomings. Whereas other franchise players bring more than just jumpshooting, that is all that Dirk brings. Granted, he's phenomenal at that one dimension, but it makes things a lot harder on his teammates who have to play a lot harder in the post-season to make up for Dirk's lack of defense, passing, leadership and rebounding depending on if he's hanging out on the perimeter. These are issues other franchise players don't force upon their teammates since they usually bring scoring, but also some semblance of passing, rebounding, defense and leadership.

Dirk is in a tough spot where he's a franchise scorer, but not a franchise player. It's something that I don't think we've ever seen in the NBA. He's ALMOST good enough to get it done as the man of his own team, but his lack of mental toughness really prevents him from getting over that hump and coupled with his lack of diversity, it's a recipe that sometimes ends in disaster as we saw in the finals in 06 and the GS series in 07.

I'm sorry, but wtf? He is the MAIN REASON why his team struggled? I can see why people criticize Dirk, but now you've just exposed yourself as a blatant hater. Of course they should have won, especially with Timmy being so bad, but the Mavs lost DESPITE their depth and because apart from Dirk and maybe Butler none played to his normal standard.

You're giving Dirk's defense not enough credit. He may not be a good defender, but he's definitely okay. If you would have watched any game since 03, you would know that. Also, Dirk is a very good rebounder (he was even the team's leader in the previous season, so wtf are you talking about "picking up the slack"?) and a decent passer whilst being extremly turnover-insusceptible. Leadership? He single-handedly took over the third quarter in game 6 (okay, not single-handedly, there has been Roddy, too) and shot 95% of his free throws over the course of the series. So Kobe's always being called a great leader because of his gamewinners (although his ratio is much worse than Dirk's), but that doesn't count for Dirk. Then Kobe's shooting a rather bad percentage at the line in the finals, but that's okay. I'm sorry, but Dirk's teammates are not supposed (at least most of the team like with any other superstar) to pick up his slack, but at least play to their standards or better yet, step their games up a notch. And sorry, if you claim that the jumpshot is Dirk's only weapon in his offensive arsenal, you're either lying or dumb.

[nestea()]

Kevin Durant.

Do you know what channel basketball is on because you need to watch it.

K, Thanks.

[1~Gibson~1]

PG: Chauncey Billups
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Vince Carter
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Dwight Howard

Agree with the list?

hell ****in no!

Chauncey??
Dwight??

[TrueDiesel3]

swap Billups for Arenas

Arenas is not a choker, he's just an idiot and an attention whore....completely different things. Mo Williams is the guy that should replace Chauncey Billups.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

Billups?!?!?!?!?!?!?! You're an idiot.

[Magic Vinsanity]

How the f*ck is Dwight a choker?! Ask LeBitch if Dwight choked in the ECF closeout game in 2009. Him kissing FT's in the Finals isnt choking, because he misses FT's all the time. If he was a good FT shooter and he missed, THATS choking. Dwight didnt choke.

Billups? GTFO!

Retard.

[TrueDiesel3]

How the f*ck is Dwight a choker?! Ask LeBitch if Dwight choked in the ECF closeout game in 2009. Him kissing FT's in the Finals isnt choking, because he misses FT's all the time. If he was a good FT shooter and he missed, THATS choking. Dwight didnt choke.

Billups? GTFO!

Retard.

I know you are a Magic fan, but missing FTs in the biggest moments is considered choking, no matter how bad your FT% is......It's still a choke, now it might not be as bad as Nick Anderson missing those FTs, but it's still a choke. Plus, there isn't really a Center that chokes, is there?

I agree abou Billups though, Billups isn't really a choker.

[Yung D-Will]

How the f*ck is Dwight a choker?! Ask LeBitch if Dwight choked in the ECF closeout game in 2009. Him kissing FT's in the Finals isnt choking, because he misses FT's all the time. If he was a good FT shooter and he missed, THATS choking. Dwight didnt choke.

Billups? GTFO!

Retard.

Thx for clearing that up.

So if you miss freethrows at the end of the game and you're a "bad" free throw shooter you didn't choke. I see then i wonder what all this Rondo hype is about when he missed freethrows,

[SCdac]

I'm sorry, but Dirk (and Beauboius) were the reason the Mavs overcame a 20+ pts deficit, Dirk scoring even scoring a clutch 3pointer that gave them the first lead of the game. But then came along Rick Carlisle, moment killer. You're right, Dirk should've driven to the basket stronger, and I was very angry at him for not doing it (especially coz he's got GREAT post moves) but that one moment doesn't mean at all that he choked. Concerning those fouls in the first half: That was pure frustration and absolutely comprehensible, because the rest of the team has been playing like sh!t, especially someone like Jason Kidd, who is supposed to be a leader and a go-to-guy, too.

Granted, Dirk did choke several times against Miami and the Warriors. But even great players have such moments. Often the difference is that a good team is supposed to step into the breach for its superstar the way that he usually does it the other way around.

And if hitting gamewinners doesn't somehow translate into clutchness, then why don't other players have a similar or better ratio than Dirk? And hasn't Dirk been in the top 3 4th quarter players the last 5 years? His choker label derives from the Miami and the Golden State series, which is totally understandable, but it's not fair towards Dirk that he's still being called a choker when the last few playoff series losses have not been his fault at all.

If you're the leader of a team, and you're playing more minutes than anybody, you can't say it wasn't his fault "at all". This is coming from somebody who grew up watching David Robinson fall short in the playoffs tim and time again - much of it was his fault, and he had a similarly shitty (probably worse) supporting cast.... at the same time, much like Dirk, the team would even be there without him.

and lots of players have hit game winners. I'm not discounting Dirk's multitude of game winning shots, but I'm not letting it re-paint the picture he's painted for himself in the playoffs. I take them with a grain of salt anyways, up until 2006, Dirk had less game winning shots than Steve Francis, Micheal Redd, Carmelo Anthony, and Joe Johnson... None of which are better players than Dirk... I think lots of players are capable of hitting clutch shots, and I think Nowitzki, with such a clean release (the best from any 7 footer ever possibly) and height advantage, is definitely capable of hitting clutch shots.

But hitting game winners does not automatically make a player "clutch" for the rest of their career in my opinion. There's more to being clutch than jump shooting . And game-winning shots don't carry over into the playoffs necessarily (I definitely saw that with Roger Mason Jr. who had like 3-4 game winners in 2009 and absolutely blew in the ensuing playoffs).

And for the record, I don't blame Dirk entirely for losing the Spurs in the first round or even mostly (Carlisle played a big part, and his dumbfounded post game interviews only highlighted that. Shawn Marion was also a waste of space, and Kidd was very disappointing). But Nowitzki DID play a part of it. In game 2, on his home court, he shot 9-24, missed his first 6 shots of the game, and missed a FT for the first time in like 88 attempts (playoff pressure much?), letting the Spurs gain momentum in the series. In game 4 (the third Spurs win in a row), he scored 17 points in 43 minutes which is not ideal for him and Dallas. Like I said, in the last game he had opportunities to force the pressure and stop the clock, rather than trying to "shoot his way out of a hole".

Choking can happen at any time, even on the back of some really good games.

[creepingdeath]

@SCdac: Of course he played a part, I mean after all he still is part of the team, so you're right about that one, my bad. Still, I don't consider it choking at all because he played a very good series, no matter how you turn it.

[Magic Vinsanity]

I know you are a Magic fan, but missing FTs in the biggest moments is considered choking, no matter how bad your FT% is......It's still a choke, now it might not be as bad as Nick Anderson missing those FTs, but it's still a choke.

It has nothing to do with being a Magic fan, because I'm more than happy to list all Howard's faults and all the Magic's faults in general, but Dwight choking at the FT line, when he sucks d*ck at FT's all the time regardless of when he takes them, I dont think can be considered choking. It was just Dwight missing, as usual.

Thx for clearing that up.

So if you miss freethrows at the end of the game and you're a "bad" free throw shooter you didn't choke. I see then i wonder what all this Rondo hype is about when he missed freethrows,

Dude, you can choke at something you are crap at anyway! Dont be ridiculous. I cant play golf, so if I miss a putt, does that make me a choker? No, it makes me a crap golf player! Dwight is a crap FT shooter, not a choker. There's a difference.

[TheCorporation]

No Ray Allen nor John Starks?

RA?

[zORi]

It has nothing to do with being a Magic fan, because I'm more than happy to list all Howard's faults and all the Magic's faults in general, but Dwight choking at the FT line, when he sucks d*ck at FT's all the time regardless of when he takes them, I dont think can be considered choking. It was just Dwight missing, as usual.



Dude, you can choke at something you are crap at anyway! Dont be ridiculous. I cant play golf, so if I miss a putt, does that make me a choker? No, it makes me a crap golf player! Dwight is a crap FT shooter, not a choker. There's a difference.

Exactly.

Also, have you guys noticed that not one Magic fan has stood up for Vince? He deserves to be on that list, that's not being biased, but Dwight definitely doesn't.

You don't have a choker C? I got one, Channing Frye.

I also notice how Lebron isn't on there, and how could you people even think about putting Rashard on there after all the buzzer beaters/game winners he has hit in the last year or 2? GTFO!

[hateraid]

Choke Webber...I mean Chris.