Official Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Thread

[RedBlackAttack]

Besides Floyd and Sergio Martinez (who I think is too big and would beat Pac, and will beat Paul Williams this weekend), who else is there? Shane's not really a pure boxer, so I guess Pac would have to fight one of the 140'ers, but then they won't bring in much money.

Honestly? I know it isn't the most popular response, but I would much rather see Manny fight JMM for a 3rd time (preferably at 140) than I would see him go against someone like Paul Williams or even Shane Mosley (I would rather see SSM than PWill, for the record).

Marquez may or may not be over the hill. I really haven't made my mind up on that yet. However, his style doesn't necessarily dictate that he be in absolute top-flight condition to give Pac fits. Marquez has always been more about technique than amazing talent. He understands Pacquiao and what he needs to do to beat him.

I have little doubt that, if that fight came off, Marquez would out-box Manny for the majority of the fight... Even now. The question is the same as it was the last time they fought two years ago... Can he avoid Pac's big punch and not fall into those 2-point rounds? He hasn't proven he can avoid them yet, but at least it would be an interesting matchup.

Floyd, Sergio or JMM.... One of those three and I will be genuinely excited. Anyone else and especially someone like Williams? No bueno.

[Reef]

That's the whole point. These types are the perfect breed to make Manny look invincible. Those Margarito, Mayorga (even though he never fought him) types. However, the one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork. There is absolutely no way Manny will be able to execute those multiple combinations on Floyd without catching leather.

You look at some of the fighters whom Pac fought against who actually had some good skill and fight discipline such as JMM and Morales and Pac was reduced. Take that into consideration, how do you propose he'll handle Floyd who is a much sharper, smarter and technically sound fighter.

If Floyd doesn't step up to fight or ends up injail, then who else should Pac fight then?

[RedBlackAttack]

That's the whole point. These types are the perfect breed to make Manny look invincible. Those Margarito, Mayorga (even though he never fought him) types. However, the one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork. There is absolutely no way Manny will be able to execute those multiple combinations on Floyd without catching leather.

You look at some of the fighters whom Pac fought against who actually had some good skill and fight discipline such as JMM and Morales and Pac was reduced. Take that into consideration, how do you propose he'll handle Floyd who is a much sharper, smarter and technically sound fighter.

I've been saying that for years. The biggest thing about Floyd and the reason that he is such a difficult fighter for just about anyone is his ability to diagnose a fight as it is happening and being able to control the distance. He finds the range where he can connect with his best stuff and where he either has just enough room to get out of the way or, against a smaller fighter, completely out of the danger zone.

That is what a pure boxer does.

Against Floyd, Pacquiao would have to show that he can adapt to Floyd's ever-changing gameplan and make the moves necessary to counter them. Any time that you are in the ring with Floyd, it is a chess match. Having Roach in his corner is good and he can help point him in the right direction, but, ultimately, it would be up to Pac to figure out a way to counter Floyd's counters... Something he has never had to do against a boxer of that caliber.

Pacquiao is tremendous... A truly all-time great. I just think this is the worst possible matchup for him and I think that Floyd would box circles around him. I've been wrong before, but I (like you) feel pretty certain about how the fight would go.

[RedBlackAttack]

For those that may not be all that schooled in boxing technique, this is what I mean when I refer to controlling the distance...

Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Master of Defense

Art of Defense

[yellownpurple]

For those that may not be all that schooled in boxing technique, this is what I mean when I refer to controlling the distance...

Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Master of Defense

Art of Defense

Does mayweather get his defensive stance from anyone? I don't really see boxers using that type.

[Zombles]

his pops.

and while on paper Floyd's style would be a nightmare for Pac I think the intangible of his heart is a big question, he's never really been hurt or in a dog fight. Judah and Mosley both stunned him for a moment with flush shots but those fights were strolls aside from those two punches.

Manny should be able to outspeed Floyd, which none of his larger opponents come close to doing, and if he starts landing flush more than just once I wonder if Floyd will fold.

[RedBlackAttack]

Does mayweather get his defensive stance from anyone? I don't really see boxers using that type.

Floyd uses a hybrid of the Philly Shell. He employs a lot of the strategies and techniques of the Philly Shell, but he also adds his own variations.

Probably the most similar style I have seen is James Toney. Is it any coincidence that Floyd and Toney are natives of Grand Rapids, MI? Probably not.

But, yeah... If you want to see the most similar style to Floyd, check out Toney's bout against Iran Barkley and other big fights from relatively early in James' career.

[JustinJDW]

Fight will never happen because Mayweather is not a guy who takes chances. Mayweather knows Pacquiao could realistically beat him and thats not a risk Mayweather will take.

This.

Although if the fight ever did win, Mayweather would win.

[RedBlackAttack]

his pops.

and while on paper Floyd's style would be a nightmare for Pac I think the intangible of his heart is a big question, he's never really been hurt or in a dog fight. Judah and Mosley both stunned him for a moment with flush shots but those fights were strolls aside from those two punches.

Manny should be able to outspeed Floyd, which none of his larger opponents come close to doing, and if he starts landing flush more than just once I wonder if Floyd will fold.

PBF hasn't given any indication that he will fall apart under the pressure of a close fight or being hurt. He has been legitimately stunned on two occasions... Against Mosley and against DeMarcus Corley.

Both times, he showed a great ability to regain his faculties quickly. Hell... Against Corley, he was stunned early in a round and he actually ended up coming back and winning the round handily.

Mosley legitimately hurt Floyd. His legs buckled on two occasions. Both times, he recovered quite nicely and SSM is no slouch when he smells blood.

Floyd was also in some very close battles with a real tank in Castillo. He acquitted himself very well in the closing rounds of both fights (especially the second).

Also, although I didn't think the fight was close at all, he closed the DLH bout very well, which actually led to his win on the cards. Had he not dominated those last 3-4 rounds, they may have stolen the decision for Oscar.

There is no reason to suspect a lack of heart. In fact, most of the evidence points to the opposite.

[Tarik One]

Manny should be able to outspeed Floyd,

You really believe this?

[Zombles]

This is true, but Floyd has never been in a true back-and-forth struggle, never been close to one. He's been hurt a few times but took almost no follow-up shots because of a good natural reaction to clinch.

And the De La Hoya fight may have been scored close but Floyd was undamaged throughout and he won the last few rounds more decisively than the others because Oscar gassed and stopped pumping his jab to get Floyd to retreat against the ropes where he would throw those useless judge-pleasing flurries.

I'm just saying, Floyd's never been in a war. I doubt he would fold like a lawn chair and look for the nearest exit but so much of his game is based around his cerebral skills, his ability to dissect a fight as it's happening and pinpoint his opponent's weaknesses. I wonder if he stays as clear-headed and intelligent when he's bleeding and bruised and being constantly pressured.

Which I think Manny will do to him, even if Manny loses. Floyd's reflexes are amazing but they've looked amazing against slower fighters. He hasn't fought anyone lately with the handspeed of Pac or the ability to string together blindingly fast combos.

[Zombles]

You really believe this?

i get the feeling, yes, especially in the sense that Pac's flurries will be quicker than Floyd's ability to shoulder-roll away from them.

can't be sure until they fight each other, they outspeed everyone else they fight and were both ridiculously quicker than their shared opponents.

[RedBlackAttack]

Zombles,
Watch the Castillo fights. There was PLENTY of adversity for Floyd in both fights and there was also a 'back-and-forth' aspect to both bouts.

Floyd overcame as much adversity in both of those fights as Manny has ever overcome in any fight. I'm not sure why Floyd gets a question mark in terms of heart and Pac has an automatic pass.

Pacquiao overcame adversity against Marquez in both of those fights, but he was also thoroughly out-boxed in both fights and had to rely on the KDs to get the wins. It isn't like he stepped up to completely dominate the championship rounds. In fact, during the first fight, Pac had to rely on the first three rounds to carry him to a very narrow win (I thought it was a draw at worst for JMM).

Floyd will not be 'out-quicked' by anyone. It isn't just about your handspeed (although Floyd's hands are amazingly quick), but also about footwork. Floyd is as quick as any fighter has ever been in the welterweight division.

[Tarik One]

This is true, but Floyd has never been in a true back-and-forth struggle, never been close to one. He's been hurt a few times but took almost no follow-up shots because of a good natural reaction to clinch.

And the De La Hoya fight may have been scored close but Floyd was undamaged throughout and he won the last few rounds more decisively than the others because Oscar gassed and stopped pumping his jab to get Floyd to retreat against the ropes where he would throw those useless judge-pleasing flurries.

I'm just saying, Floyd's never been in a war. I doubt he would fold like a lawn chair and look for the nearest exit but so much of his game is based around his cerebral skills, his ability to dissect a fight as it's happening and pinpoint his opponent's weaknesses. I wonder if he stays as clear-headed and intelligent when he's bleeding and bruised and being constantly pressured.

Which I think Manny will do to him, even if Manny loses. Floyd's reflexes are amazing but they've looked amazing against slower fighters. He hasn't fought anyone lately with the handspeed of Pac or the ability to string together blindingly fast combos.

You need to look at his fights from pre-2005. Trust me, the man has been battle tested on many occasion and against some tough mofos in 140 weight class. Just because a fighter looks so great against his opponents doesn't automatically mean he didn't have to reach deep down to overcome them.

[Tarik One]

double post