What is the argument for Dirk being better than Blake?

[creepingdeath]

blablabla

Current Dirk is better than Griffin, too.

[JtotheIzzo]

lol at this thread and the f*cking toolshed who started it.

[creepingdeath]

Plus I'm from Germany and love sauerkraut so dirk is das besser!!!!!"

Exactly, my whole argumentation was based on that... sh*t, now you've got me.

[Arti]

I love how even still, EVEN STILL, the vast majority of people in this thread can't even make an actual comparison using words and examples that relate to their GAMES.

It's just "omg are you kidding me? dirk has did it for 12 years!!!!"

ok, ok you guys. i guess we all know that shaq is still better than dwight howard, cuz shaq has doing it for 15 years and dwight didnt win anything!


blake is absolutely shredding teams. so is dirk. the question is about who is a better player RIGHT NOW. Someone please tell me what makes Dirk the better player, without simply citing the fact that he won 60 games in the regular season in 2006. I mean seriously, are you that retarded? If you have a brain, use it. This thread doesn't say anything about Griffin being better than Dirk. Unbeknownst to the retards and fools that roam this site, two players CAN actually be about equal. But the question is, what is the argument that places Dirk definitively ahead of Griffin?


Problem is, this is what happens. People get these perceptions, and instead of using their brains to update themselves with knowledge, they just stick to the guns they're comfortable with and refuse to think critically about it. Obviously they don't even watch most players on most teams, so they just sit back and wait until the media gives them the go-ahead to think Griffin is up there with other superstars. Can't come out and believe something until you have safety in numbers, right?

"Oh, Dirk has been here long time, I can't say Blake is better! Blake is just a rookie, it wouldn't be right!"

Well, can you discuss their games and compare them and give reasons....

"Dirk's team won lots of games before! He's played for 12 years!"

Right, but Blake is playing incredibly well right now, their teams and seniority don't really mean anything in terms of comparison....

"No but dude, Dirk was in the playoffs in his 3rd year! Blake is just a rookie, you can't compare them!"

Ok, ISH. YOu are pretty much a down syndrome class.

There have been many legit comparisons between the two players that have either gotten ignored or "refuted" with an inane argument. Let's take a look:

Dirk supporter:
Dirk puts those stats up on a contending team as the primary scorer.
Teams plan their defensive strategy around Dirk.
You can go to Dirk for a basket during crunch time, can't say the same about Griffin.
Putting up 20 and 10 on a championship level team is VERY different from putting up the same stats on a lottery bound team.

The response:
ok, so actually comparing the two as individuals is too difficult and complex for you, so you're just going to say "umm, dirk plays with better players so he's the betterer play3r!"

Here, the Griffin homer purposely misconstrues the person's point and ignores everything about Dirk's reliability as a go-to crunch time scorer and the fact that teams have to game plan around him.

Dirk supporter:
I'm not exactly sure what it is you wanna hear.
Dirk has better handles. Dirk is more clutch. Dirk has more weapons. He can go outside-inside. Dirk reads double teams as well as anyone in the League.

The response:
Dirk has better handles and passes better? So why is Griffin averaging an entire extra assist per game? Also, I don't know that I've ever seen Dirk grab a rebound and take it coast to coast to the rim. Griffin does it at least once per game. He's a lot stronger and more aggressive in the paint, which is the most important area.

Seriously, FIVE more rebounds per game, and an extra assist? You consider that less valuable than the 2.5 points per game advantage Dirk has?

As far as clutch, Griffin has already proven VERY clutch. He's not even a three point shooter and he's made 4 of the 6 he's been forced to take in desperate situations. You kiddin me? He's also hit some clutch long-two's and been reliable in the post down the stretch. Besides just SCORING which is apparently all some people can see, he grabs big time rebounds in big time situations. Dude is a straight up warrior.

There is really no way to actually compare their GAMES (and again, not use lazy cliche's, strawmen, and arguments of 'seniority') to explain Dirk as being better than Blake. Besides, look at the stats. What is there to argue??

1) A big man's passing ability is not measured purely by assists, especially when an offense like the Mavs' is not designed for Dirk to rack up dimes.
2) Someone's ability to go coast-to-coast doesn't necessarily make him a better ball handler. The game is won in halfcourt sets, and Dirk's ability to iso and get any shot he wants with his ballhandling when the game slows down is much more important for winning games than Griffin running down the court and dunking.
3) Clutch stats

Dirk supporter:
Dirk makes the game easier for his teammates. His range allows him to spread the floor and give everyone else more space to work. He is also better at creating his own shot. You can give the ball to him on the last possession of the game and trust him to be able to create a good look for himself. We can't say the same about Blake quite yet.

Lots of players can put up great numbers on bad teams (David Lee, Chris Bosh, etc.). Blake puts up impressive stats, but it hasn't proven to contribute to winning games yet. I believe Blake will someday be an elite, top 10 player in the league, perhaps much sooner than we think. Heck, he's already better than anyone would have probably predicted him to be. But he isn't there yet.

Some statistics:
Per 48 minutes, the Mavs score 115.3 points when Dirk is on the floor compared to 95.7 when he is off. The Clippers score 107.3 with Blake on, 101.2 with Blake off.

The Mavs give up 101.1 points with Dirk is on, 109.6 with Dirk off. Clippers give up 111.5 with Blake on, 105.5 with Blake off.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

Dirk supporter:
Statistically Dirk is actually a far more efficient scorer than Griffin. Dirk takes and makes more 3s and Griffin is an awful FT shooter. It's a pretty decent gap in that regard. Blake is easily a better rebounder so far. I prefer Dirk's defense, Blake's instincts aren't that great and Dirk is a bigger and longer player. Also, Dirk has better overall IQ on both sides of the court, in terms of decision making with the ball and help defense.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

Dirk supporter:
Dirk is still better than Griffin.

Offensively, Dirk spaces the floor better for his teammates and creates more offensive opportunities for them as well due to his scoring prowess, both real and imagined (by the opposing coach/team). He gets consistently double teamed and consistently makes the other team pay. Dirk has also shown an ability to close out games by creating his own shot in the 4th.

Defensively I'd argue Dirk is better than Griffin. He plays better positional defense at this point... both aren't much man vs. man in the post (except Griffin is pretty damn good at hedging screens and playing perimeter D).

Griffin's rebounding is his edge but it doesn't overcome Dirk's ability to consistently get his team better shots.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

Dirk supporter:
When you talk about an MVP, team record is surely one of the most important aspects. Even looking at stats you have to look at team record. Are you getting stats in garbage time? If you're on a losing team, you're going to be playing the other team's bench players a whole lot more. I guarantee you that Blake Griffin plays the other team's bench players more than Dirk, but Dirk plays the starters more than Blake.
To start, the Mavs are contenders and the Clippers are in the lottery.

Next, simply looking at FG% is not a good way to determine a player's efficiency. Dirk is shooting 40% from the 3 point line. He's also shooting 88% from the charity stripe. When you factor those two in, Dirk's TS% is 63% while Blake's is 55%. This difference is because Blake doesn't shoot 3s and he is poor from the FT line (59%).

You should also consider Blake Griffin plays 1.5 more minutes per game than Dirk. Also, the Clippers' pace is 1 more possession higher than the Mavs. While these might seem miniscule, when you adjust the numbers (so that pace is at 91.9 & minutes is at 36), Dirk is at 24.9 PPG while Blake remains at 20.9 PPG.

Blake Griffin also fouls more, has more turnovers and less blocks. Sure, a lot of this is very small, but over the course of a long season they add up.

To sum it up: Dirk shoots the ball a LOT better than Blake. Dirk's FG% is much higher despite him shooting mid range and 3 pointers at a much higher rate.
Dirk also shoots free throws almost 30% better. Free throws are obviously important because they add up, and you need them in the clutch. Blake Griffin only has a 34.2% chance of making 2 FT in a row. Dirk is at 77.3%.

The response:
There was no response because the Griffin homers couldn't come up with one, so they ignored this post.

See a trend here?

[jstern]

Reposting this because it seems to have gone unnoticed.

Per 48 minutes, the Mavs score 115.3 points when Dirk is on the floor compared to 95.7 when he is off. The Clippers score 107.3 with Blake on, 101.2 with Blake off.

The Mavs give up 101.1 points with Dirk is on, 109.6 with Dirk off. Clippers give up 111.5 with Blake on, 105.5 with Blake off.

Therefore, Dirk is responsible for a net 28.1 points per 48 minutes. Blake Griffin is responsible for a net 0.2 points, and his team is actually worse defensively when he is on the floor.

This is 2011, bring something better to the table besides ppg and rpg if you want to talk statistics.

For months I've been wanting to re read this, but couldn't find this thread. Perfect time to bump it.