Very disturbing charts on the wealth imbalance in USA

[RedBlackAttack]

It's all based on experience as well; some people have had bad experiences with finding work or perhaps live in a city like (Cleveland) that is an absolute shit hole (no offense) and they're forced to over-exaggerate.

And then there are people like you who are on a different end of the spectrum; presumably.

Cleveland isn't a 'sh!thole'... that is just a stupid thing to say and, yeah... It is offensive. What has happened to Cleveland can happen anywhere when greedy CEOs take their workforce overseas and from an area was dependent upon manufacturing.

The same thing has happened with the garment industry in New York City. It is dying... And it is sad.

[shlver]

Thank Bush and the republicans that have ruined this country. They are on the wrong side of every issue.

Do the democrats have a solution?

[DeuceWallaces]

PT has been to the strip mall; of course he's an expert in class economics and sociology.

Anyway, just glad I'm not in the bottom 90%.

[Sarcastic]

I think it should be painfully aware to everyone that supply side economics does not work.

[crosso√er]

It isn't just that the economy is 'knowledge based' and the other kind of workers are no longer needed. Our countries are still filled with companies that need things manufactured... Literally filled with them.

The problem is that trade agreements in the last 30 years like NAFTA have completely killed the industrial base in this country and, while we do use a lot of 'stuff,' almost none of that stuff is produced here. That means that a CEO will move his entire workforce out of the country and to India or China because it is slightly more cost-efficient.

The result of this is a greater bottom-line and a higher stock price, but that money only goes one place... To the top of the company. The few pennies that they do throw these workers in other countries do not even re-circulate in the US. The lack of tariffs and the existence of these trade agreements help one group of people... The super, super rich... The people at the top of these massive corporations.

The jobs that unskilled workers used to be able to do and support a family are totally gone. That money that those employees used to bring home in America and re-circulate on things like house payments, furniture, car payments, etc. is gone, as well.

It doesn't just impact the unskilled workers... College graduates might work in human resources or in PR departments for these big corporations, but they have literally cut back on everything now that there is no manufacturing taking place in this country anymore.

I mean, why do you need a human resources department if your human resources are in India?

The death of the middle class happened when the tariffs were thrown away, trade agreements signed and manufacturing fled so that CEOs could make 500x the average worker instead of 30x.

Of course bro, globalization is another component of our struggles among many others.
But like I've already summarized our core problem; it's our proud notion of being a free-market country, and now the middle/low class people are complaining because incrementally the distribution (predictably mind you) has shifted to a point of no return. Communist Manifesto is perhaps the greatest ethical/economical article I've ever read (by Marx) regarding this very issue.

Further more; I am not disagreeing with you about CEO's making ridiculous amount of money but it's the economic structure that is detrimental to our struggles.

As far as the work-force; those UNSKILLED workers are REPLACED with machinery. You nit-picking about the HR department or claiming that certain manufacturing companies still need worker isn't a rebuttal. Those workers that work for Toyota for example; hardly do labor-intensive work, they use their knowledge to operate the machinery.

I never said there aren't jobs like the "docks" or some miscellaneous labor intensive jobs that middle to low class families can get hired for; but there is a significantly reduction in those jobs which is a direct causation of the problems you're highlighting.

Many companies also are transnational companies who hire people abroad (foreigners) to work for their subsidiaries; therefore, less Americans have those opportunities.

Bottom line; it's the bed we made for ourselves, now sleep in it.
We had no problems with our economical structure (or distribution of wealth) until it became a serious problem. Being short-sighted isn't an excuse.

[shlver]

For those advocating the redistribution of wealth, how far should it go? How progressive should our progressive income taxes become? Forced redistribution does not help economic growth.

[Jasper]

We must not just look at our current historic point of view in regards to the economy as well as the gross national product and class.
We need to go back when civilzation was created believe it or not.

There was once all who were equal , until civilization became structured.
Once commerce occurred the origins of class became RICH and POOR.
Eventually the poor wanted more , and then the Middle class evolved.
Middle class did not evolve from the rich.
Obviously America has a vast majority of middle class compared to the poor and as well as the rich.
But as Blackattack had stated the trend where not only revenue , tax's could be balanced from the majority (middle class) the economic turn has evolved into a top heavy society of a trend to Rich and less efficient (meaning more people that were on the edge of being poor are POOR)
The only way this cycle can be changed is what happened on black Friday , disarming the wealthy and reestablishing the wealth across our country.
Bush nearly toppled our country into depression , which would of been horrific for not only America but the world.
I am clueless to how our country gets the balance back to where the Middle Class sustains major influence on the wealth of our country and commerce.
However exporting jobs globally does not help.
Because I live in a rural forest region , I am aware that exporting of goods processed in other countrys and shipped back here , seems like a huge fail to me.
Go to Home Depot and you will see China stamped on lumber you buy , but the wood is actually from America.

[crosso√er]

Cleveland isn't a 'sh!thole'... that is just a stupid thing to say and, yeah... It is offensive. What has happened to Cleveland can happen anywhere when greedy CEOs take their workforce overseas and from an area was dependent upon manufacturing.

The same thing has happened with the garment industry in New York City. It is dying... And it is sad.

Cleveland became a shit hole because of greedy CEO's; it might be offensive but you just admitted of it being the truth.

Look, I know you're from Cleveland it's close to your heart. I've visited the city in 2009 and it was disgusting man. It does piss me off that this country is dominated by fortune 500 companies and people like you struggle; but it's something we should have dealt with a long time ago. Now you want change and force-feed the government to distribute wealth; it's plausible just not in the short-term, and by that I mean, not in your life time.

[RedBlackAttack]

Good post, crosso√er. I will respond when I get a chance. I'm about to eat dinner and watch a documentary. Stay online if you can... I'm enjoying this back-and-forth.

For those advocating the redistribution of wealth, how far should it go? How progressive should our progressive income taxes become? Forced redistribution does not help economic growth.

I'm not saying that this country *needs* redistribution of wealth. I'm saying that the redistribution has already happened and it has gone to the top.

Why is it 'redistribution' of wealth when workers feel like they should be paid a livable wage, but when CEOs go from making 30x the average worker's salary to 500x the average worker's salary, that isn't BLATANT redistribution?

[Sarcastic]

For those advocating the redistribution of wealth, how far should it go? How progressive should our progressive income taxes become? Forced redistribution does not help economic growth.

We have always been redistributing wealth. We have been redistributing it towards the top. How else do you think the imbalances were made? Do you think rich people worked harder or something?

[-playmaker-]

PT has been to the strip mall; of course he's an expert in class economics and sociology.

Anyway, just glad I'm not in the bottom 90%.

yes, I claimed to be economics expert...that's what I did

rather than juts point out that it looks like we have still have good money on those charts...

[shlver]

Good post, crosso√er. I will respond when I get a chance. I'm about to eat dinner and watch a documentary. Stay online if you can... I'm enjoying this back-and-forth.



I'm not saying that this country *needs* redistribution of wealth. I'm saying that the redistribution has already happened and it has gone to the top.

Why is it 'redistribution' of wealth when workers feel like they should be paid a livable wage, but when CEOs go from making 30x the average worker's salary to 500x the average worker's salary, that isn't BLATANT redistribution?

Well, it is useless hand waving to discuss what is apparent. We need to discuss solutions. If the control of wealth being concentrated in the top 10% is a crisis then solutions should be discussed and that is what I meant by my question.

[shlver]

We have always been redistributing wealth. We have been redistributing it towards the top. How else do you think the imbalances were made? Do you think rich people worked harder or something?

Of course. Wealth shows a strong correlation with age. People tend to save as they grow older.

[crosso√er]

We have always been redistributing wealth. We have been redistributing it towards the top. How else do you think the imbalances were made? Do you think rich people worked harder or something?

No, it's a fundamental concept of a free-market, something America embedded for decades. That concept is Supply & Demand; that's what causes the "imbalance".

Like someone already mentioned (a terrific point); before you go to school, learn about the economy first. Don't just go pursue your hobby and subsequently complain about "inequality" or "distribution of wealth"; before you actually select a program, make sure your monetary needs are met (if that is a primary concern of yours for attending that specific program).

It is YOUR responsibility not the billionaires who make fortunes.

[shlver]

Cleveland isn't a 'sh!thole'... that is just a stupid thing to say and, yeah... It is offensive. What has happened to Cleveland can happen anywhere when greedy CEOs take their workforce overseas and from an area was dependent upon manufacturing.

The same thing has happened with the garment industry in New York City. It is dying... And it is sad.

CEO's are investors with capital at risk. Take for example Buffet. Look at his list of CEO's and try to find an example of excess compensation. You won't find it because the shareholders monitor CEO pay also.