The Heat/LeBron think they just won the championship?

[FathosRgoodatBJ]

Not worth taking your garbage account.

LOL at you join date of 2007, it's st patty's day weekend have a drink on me *******, lol at post count to join date ratio.

trollololol

[catch24]

We can't see the future dude. Obviously. My point, however, is not moot.

You can't just discount what has happened so far this year.

Its not like the Bulls winning a title will somehow validate Rose's efficiency. It will just mean his team was built in a way that it works and that they can overcome his poor shooting at times. Thats all.

But it will be standard ISH to try and relate the two.

No one is discounting what Rose has done. I sure as hell am not. I'm just saying you can't compare what Kobe has done in the post season to what Rose is doing right now because of the two different styles of play.

We'll see how Rose's numbers and game translates into the postseason. Until then, unfortunately, your point is still moot, dude.

[ginobli2311]

No one is discounting what Rose has done. I sure as hell am not. I'm just saying you can't compare what Kobe has done in the post season to what Rose is doing right now because of the two different styles of play.

We'll see how Rose's numbers and game translates in the postseason. Until then, unfortunately, your point is still moot, dude.

ugh.

you just don't see the point i'm making.

whatever.

[Tlova]

We'll see how Rose's numbers and game translates in the postseason. Until then, unfortunately, your point is still moot, dude.

That iso go straight to the rack won't hold up in the playoffs especially against boston. Teams just get plain better most notably boston and the lakers in the postseason. Also the fact boozer sucks against legit bigs and keith bogans and ronnie brewer are your sg's raise quite a few questions.

[tpols]

No one is discounting what Rose has done. I sure as hell am not. I'm just saying you can't compare what Kobe has done in the post season to what Rose is doing right now because of the two different styles of play.

We'll see how Rose's numbers and game translates into the postseason. Until then, unfortunately, your point is still moot, dude.

Gino is saying that because kobe has shot sub 45% and won, rose can too.. but he's leaving out that kobe was twice the defensive player, was a shooting guard, got to the line nearly double the amount of the time and was overall more efficient by a solid margin..

Basically he's using ONE variable of many and saying that that one variable can be used as a measuring stick for success, but how are we going to act like the other things kobe brought to the table and did differently than rose didn't matter? This guy just wants to take every opportunity to take a shot at kobe's efficiency is what it is..

[JerrySteakhouse]

LOL at you join date of 2007, it's st patty's day weekend have a drink on me *******, lol at post count to join date ratio.

trollololol

[chazzy]

Actually not at all.

You can't just assume some drop off in team performance in the playoffs for a team. Doesn't make sense.

What dropoff? The Bulls offense is average right now. The Bulls defense is what makes up for his average inefficiency and the team's average offense. So like I said, comparing his situation to Kobe's is different because the Lakers always had a good offense when they won. And when they won with Kobe not having above average efficiency, that was when Shaq was the main offensive player. A better comparison is 01 Iverson - one man carrying his team's offensive load with a good defensive backing. Though this Bulls team has better offensive pieces and a better defense.

[DirkNowitzki41]

[tpols]

Not to mention kobe scored in bunches a whole lot more than rose.. Are we really comparing 30ppg to 24ppg? Kobe still has him efficiency wise though even on the higher volume.. They are not even in the same realm as scorers and they have different roles. These guys play different positions. There is really no comparison to be made here.

[JerrySteakhouse]

[catch24]

Gino is saying that because kobe has shot sub 45% and won, rose can too.. but he's leaving out that kobe was twice the defensive player, was a shooting guard, got to the line nearly double the amount of the time and was overall more efficient by a solid margin..

yeah, I get what he's saying, but it's irrelevant. Rose isn't a proven playoff performer nor the defensive player Kobe was as you pointed out.

Basically he's using ONE variable of many and saying that that one variable can be used as a measuring stick for success, but how are we going to act like the other things kobe brought to the table and did differently than rose didn't matter? This guy just wants to take every opportunity to take a shot at kobe's efficiency is what it is..

He's a solid poster, but his logic (if thats what you want to call it) just doesn't add up. Way too many holes in his argument and comparison.

[ginobli2311]

Gino is saying that because kobe has shot sub 45% and won, rose can too.. but he's leaving out that kobe was twice the defensive player, was a shooting guard, got to the line nearly double the amount of the time and was overall more efficient by a solid margin..

Basically he's using ONE variable of many and saying that that one variable can be used as a measuring stick for success, but how are we going to act like the other things kobe brought to the table and did differently than rose didn't matter? This guy just wants to take every opportunity to take a shot at kobe's efficiency i swhat it is..

not true at all.

i'm saying that their is a precedent for this working. i'm saying that so far this year rose's efficiency has not prevented them from winning a lot of games.

its hasn't prevented them from beating the best teams in the league as they have a 20-10 record against teams over .500.

i'm saying its often all about the teams around these guys. winning will not validate rose's inefficiency. i'm just saying that to this point, it hasn't prevented them from winning and that its a double standard to hate on rose for his numbers even though he's winning right now.....and then turn around ignore nearly identical numbers from other players because they won.

we are talking about rose so far this year and his mvp case. and to this point...he's winning.

whether or not that changes is irrelevant to this discussion.

[ginobli2311]

yeah, I get what he's saying, but it's irrelevant. Rose isn't a proven playoff performer nor the defensive player Kobe was as you pointed out.



He's a solid poster, but his logic (if thats what you want to call it) just doesn't add up. Way too many holes in his argument and comparison.

sigh. now its become a player comparison. again....not the point at all.

this came about from discussing the hate on rose for his MVP case and his case of having a great year.

the reason kobe was brought up was strictly for an example of a player that has won with similar offensive efficiency numbers.

ROSE IS WINNING RIGHT NOW.

His team is beating the best teams. His team is on pace to win 60. They've won through adversity. My point is that his efficiency numbers are not preventing this team from winning.

That is all.

This is not about Kove vs. Rose. Its about whether or not Rose's numbers prevent his team from winning or Rose from winning MVP.

To this point, they simply don't. Again...if that changes....it isn't relevant to this discussion about what we've seen so far this year.

[catch24]

sigh. now its become a player comparison. again....not the point at all.

this came about from discussing the hate on rose for his MVP case and his case of having a great year.

the reason kobe was brought up was strictly for an example of a player that has won with similar offensive efficiency numbers.

ROSE IS WINNING RIGHT NOW.

But you compared Kobe's postseason output to that of Rose during the regular season. Kobe is a proven playoff winner; Rose is NOT. You talk about them having the same efficiency and I'm saying that defenses in the postseason are tougher, as are the average amount of teams. Comparing their FG% and saying "Look, see, they're similar" is disingenuous.

I get what you're saying, but you; however, are ignoring the facts. And that's Rose has NOT led his teams like Kobe has in the playoffs. Lets wait and see this May.

[ginobli2311]

What dropoff? The Bulls offense is average right now. The Bulls defense is what makes up for his average inefficiency and the team's average offense. So like I said, comparing his situation to Kobe's is different because the Lakers always had a good offense when they won. And when they won with Kobe not having above average efficiency, that was when Shaq was the main offensive player. A better comparison is 01 Iverson - one man carrying his team's offensive load with a good defensive backing. Though this Bulls team has better offensive pieces and a better defense.

I said dropoff in team performance....meaning overall.

I never compared Rose's situation to Kobe's situation. They have completely different roles and completely different teams around them. They play different positions.

However, Rose is currently winning with average efficiency numbers.

The questions raised were:

Do his numbers keep his team from winning games? No. Its how his team is constructed. The bulls are winning games right now and are beating the other top teams.

Do his numbers keep him from winning MVP? No imo. His team success with the injuries they've suffered trumps his efficiency numbers. the same efficiency numbers i might add that haven't prevented other high volume/average efficiency guards from winning.

i don't get why you people act like the comparison isn't valid. it absolutely is based on this year...which is what we are talking about. both kobe and rose have putrid shooting games more often than most guards on good teams....but kobe has proven his team can win even with him shooting poorly. so that brings us to:

So has Rose so far this year. His team was won plenty of games with him being extremely inefficient at times. This speaks to their respective teams. As you pointed out, Kobe's teams were good enough offensively and in the paint to win when this happened. It allowed them to remain close and for Kobe to make some plays down the stretch.

I see the exact same stuff with Rose SO FAR THIS YEAR. Its different because the Bulls support him more with defense, but regardless of how they are doing it, the fact remains that the Bulls are winning games with a high volume/average efficiency guard.

There are actually a ton of similarities and the comparison is absolutely apt if we go off what we've seen this year. Which is all we can go off of because the questions at hand were MVP and winning games....