If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?

[thomaspynchon]

Defense wins championships. It's no coincidence that the acquisition of Chandler and Avery as coach stressing defense with Dampier/Diop in the paint resulted in the Mavs' 2 trips to the finals. Great offense without the ability to make stops (ala PHX Suns or Nellie ball) won't result in rings.



Dirk is having a legendary run on the offensive end. Duncan had a legendary run on both the offensive and defensive ends of the court.

Duncan wasn't anywhere near as good as Dirk on offense. Not even close.

[rmt]

Duncan wasn't anywhere near as good as Dirk on offense. Not even close.

Dirk 2011 playoffs
28.1 pts / 7.8 rebs / 2.8 asst / .6 blk on 50.5% FG

Duncan 2003 playoffs
24.7 pts / 15.4 rebs / 5.3 asst / 3.3 blk on 52.9% FG

I think 2.8 assists and 28.1 points on 50.5% FG is close to 5.3 assists and 24.7 points on 52.9% FG. Duncan's extra 2.5 assists results in 5 more points. Saying it's not even close is a homer POV.

[thomaspynchon]

Dirk 2011 playoffs
28.1 pts / 7.8 rebs / 2.8 asst / .6 blk on 50.5% FG

Duncan 2003 playoffs
24.7 pts / 15.4 rebs / 5.3 asst / 3.3 blk on 52.9% FG

I think 2.8 assists and 28.1 points on 50.5% FG is close to 5.3 assists and 24.7 points on 52.9% FG. Duncan's extra 2.5 assists results in 5 more points. Saying it's not even close is a homer POV.

Who was the closer for the Spurs?

[SCdac]

" Bill Walton: We have seen literally every shot imaginable from Tim Duncan in this series. Is there anything he can't do!? How do you guard a guy that skilled, that versatile, that complete? "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nejQMtkyLgY

21 points
20 rebounds
10 assists
8 blocks
46 minutes

Second Finals MVP

[Fatal9]

Dirk 2011 playoffs
28.1 pts / 7.8 rebs / 2.8 asst / .6 blk on 50.5% FG

Duncan 2003 playoffs
24.7 pts / 15.4 rebs / 5.3 asst / 3.3 blk on 52.9% FG

I think 2.8 assists and 28.1 points on 50.5% FG is close to 5.3 assists and 24.7 points on 52.9% FG. Duncan's extra 2.5 assists results in 5 more points. Saying it's not even close is a homer POV.

FG% ignores Dirk's insane efficiency from 3 pointers and FTs, and is a poor overall reflection of Dirk's true efficiency. More like 28.1 ppg on 63 TS% (this is historically great in the playoffs for the amount of games he's played and for how much he's scoring), Duncan 24.7 ppg on 58 TS% (good but not mindblowing or anything). Dirk has been better offensively for sure, especially when you consider what he's been doing when the games have been on the line. His assist numbers also don't really tell you how many opportunities he creates for his teammates because he spaces out the floor so well for a PF (and like Duncan, he's read doubles really well too, but IMO Dirk creates more without even touching the ball because defense has to worried about him from every spot on the floor).

[SCdac]

FG% ignores Dirk's insane efficiency from 3 pointers and FTs, and is a poor overall reflection of Dirk's true efficiency. More like 28.1 ppg on 63 TS% (this is historically great in the playoffs for the amount of games he's played and for how much he's scoring), Duncan 24.7 ppg on 58 TS% (good but not mindblowing or anything). Dirk has been better offensively for sure, especially when you consider what he's been doing when the games have been on the line. His assist numbers also don't really tell you how many opportunities he creates for his teammates because he spaces out the floor so well for a PF (and like Duncan, he's read doubles really well too, but IMO Dirk creates more without even touching the ball because defense has to worried about him from every spot on the floor).

Even when you consider Duncan's less efficient free throw shooting, he still got to the line alot, and made teams pay for not being able to cover him off the dribble or keep him off the boards. He took 232 free throws in the '03 playoffs which is the 5th most of all time in a playoff run. He made 157 of them which is the 14th highest amount of all time (right behind Iverson in 2001) and it accounted for about .25% of his scoring. So, while he's not as efficient as Dirk, his free throw-volume was still very elite and he got starting bigs in foul trouble. 10-14 in free throws is only .714%, but it's still 10 free throws in the bank. This, in combination with the rest of his offensive repertoire, and he just beasted.

[Anaximandro1]

The Lakers were what, a 4 seed that season?

Shaq missed 15 games.The Lakers (50-32) went 5-10 without him.They had prime Shaq,prime Kobe,Horry,Fisher...

And the spurs beat a dirk-less mavs squad past game 3.

The series were probably over before Dirk got hurt.

Game 1 -Duncan 40 pts,15 rb,7 as,1 blk
Game 2 -Duncan 32 pts,15 rb,5 as,3 blk
Game 3 -Duncan 34 pts,24rb,6 as,6 blk

Duncan was amazing but to assert that he was significantly better than current dirk is just an insult to basketball.

Duncan always OUTSCORED and outplayed Dirk in their first four postseason meetings (2001-2009).

2001 Western Conference Semifinals / Spurs 4-1 Over Mavs

Duncan averaged 26.8 pts (51%),17.4 rb,3.6 as,2 blk

Dirk averaged 23.0 pts (40%),8.6 rb,1.2 as,0.8 blk

2003 Western Conference Finals / Spurs 4-2 over Mavs

Duncan averaged 28 pts (57%),16.7 rb,5.8 as,3 blk

Dirk averaged 25.3 pts (43%) 11.3 rb,2.0 as,0.7 blk

2006 Western Conference Semifinals / Mavs 4-3 over Spurs

Duncan 32.2 pts (56%),11.7 rbs,3.7 as,2.6 blk

Dirk 27.1 pts (52.7%),13.3 rb,2.7 as,0.4 blk

2009 FR / Mavs 4-1 over Spurs

Duncan 19.8 pts (53%),8 rbs,3.2 as,1.2 blk

Dirk 19.2 pts (49%),8.6 rb,2.2 as,0.6 blk

Duncan wasn't anywhere near as good as Dirk on offense.Not even close.

Peak Duncan is more dominant and valuable offensively than any version of Dirk.

Perimeter-oriented players usually have higher ppg than post players;on top of that they are better closers.However,post players like Duncan or Hakeem score at will in the paint and have much higher field goal percentage,thus demanding more double teams.They create so much space for their teammates... that's why 2003 Duncan averages 5.3 assists while 2011 Dirk averages 2.8.On top of that,Duncan is one of the greatest offensive rebounders of all time,therefore he gives his team numerous second chance opportunities.

2003 Duncan 24.7 pts (53%),5.3 as,4.0 offensive rebounds

2011 Dirk 28.1 pts (50%) 2.8 as,0.6 offensive rebounds

Seriously,the ppg guys are out of control.What's next?Iverson better than Shaq on offense?

Regular Season
Iverson 26.7 ppg
Shaq 23.7 ppg

Playoffs
Iverson 29.7 ppg
Shaq 24.3 ppg

On a side note,can you imagine peak Duncan vs. Nick Collison,Ibaka,Joel Anthony,Crish Bosh or the depressed Pau Gasol?

[nycelt84]

I see some poster said Dallas beat 3 great teams to make it to the Finals. What makes and since when were the Blazers and Thunder great?

[Yung D-Will]

Who was the closer for the Spurs?

We're talking about the 03 spurs.

Who the hell do you think was the closer

[Duncan21formvp]

With Duncan and Hakeem they both avoided playing either the best team in there conference or the star on the other team was injured as was the case in Dallas in 2003 when the series was tied 2-2 and Dirk was out games 5 and 6.