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06-05-2011, 02:10 AM
#211
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
Originally Posted by rmt
Defense wins championships. It's no coincidence that the acquisition of Chandler and Avery as coach stressing defense with Dampier/Diop in the paint resulted in the Mavs' 2 trips to the finals. Great offense without the ability to make stops (ala PHX Suns or Nellie ball) won't result in rings.
Dirk is having a legendary run on the offensive end. Duncan had a legendary run on both the offensive and defensive ends of the court.
Duncan wasn't anywhere near as good as Dirk on offense. Not even close.
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06-05-2011, 02:23 AM
#212
College superstar
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
Duncan wasn't anywhere near as good as Dirk on offense. Not even close.
Dirk 2011 playoffs
28.1 pts / 7.8 rebs / 2.8 asst / .6 blk on 50.5% FG
Duncan 2003 playoffs
24.7 pts / 15.4 rebs / 5.3 asst / 3.3 blk on 52.9% FG
I think 2.8 assists and 28.1 points on 50.5% FG is close to 5.3 assists and 24.7 points on 52.9% FG. Duncan's extra 2.5 assists results in 5 more points. Saying it's not even close is a homer POV.
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06-05-2011, 02:30 AM
#213
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
Originally Posted by rmt
Dirk 2011 playoffs
28.1 pts / 7.8 rebs / 2.8 asst / .6 blk on 50.5% FG
Duncan 2003 playoffs
24.7 pts / 15.4 rebs / 5.3 asst / 3.3 blk on 52.9% FG
I think 2.8 assists and 28.1 points on 50.5% FG is close to 5.3 assists and 24.7 points on 52.9% FG. Duncan's extra 2.5 assists results in 5 more points. Saying it's not even close is a homer POV.
Who was the closer for the Spurs?
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06-05-2011, 02:36 AM
#214
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
" Bill Walton: We have seen literally every shot imaginable from Tim Duncan in this series. Is there anything he can't do!? How do you guard a guy that skilled, that versatile, that complete? "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nejQMtkyLgY
21 points
20 rebounds
10 assists
8 blocks
46 minutes
Second Finals MVP
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06-05-2011, 02:40 AM
#215
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
Originally Posted by rmt
Dirk 2011 playoffs
28.1 pts / 7.8 rebs / 2.8 asst / .6 blk on 50.5% FG
Duncan 2003 playoffs
24.7 pts / 15.4 rebs / 5.3 asst / 3.3 blk on 52.9% FG
I think 2.8 assists and 28.1 points on 50.5% FG is close to 5.3 assists and 24.7 points on 52.9% FG. Duncan's extra 2.5 assists results in 5 more points. Saying it's not even close is a homer POV.
FG% ignores Dirk's insane efficiency from 3 pointers and FTs, and is a poor overall reflection of Dirk's true efficiency. More like 28.1 ppg on 63 TS% (this is historically great in the playoffs for the amount of games he's played and for how much he's scoring), Duncan 24.7 ppg on 58 TS% (good but not mindblowing or anything). Dirk has been better offensively for sure, especially when you consider what he's been doing when the games have been on the line. His assist numbers also don't really tell you how many opportunities he creates for his teammates because he spaces out the floor so well for a PF (and like Duncan, he's read doubles really well too, but IMO Dirk creates more without even touching the ball because defense has to worried about him from every spot on the floor).
Last edited by Fatal9; 06-05-2011 at 02:43 AM.
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06-05-2011, 02:53 AM
#216
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
Originally Posted by Fatal9
FG% ignores Dirk's insane efficiency from 3 pointers and FTs, and is a poor overall reflection of Dirk's true efficiency. More like 28.1 ppg on 63 TS% (this is historically great in the playoffs for the amount of games he's played and for how much he's scoring), Duncan 24.7 ppg on 58 TS% (good but not mindblowing or anything). Dirk has been better offensively for sure, especially when you consider what he's been doing when the games have been on the line. His assist numbers also don't really tell you how many opportunities he creates for his teammates because he spaces out the floor so well for a PF (and like Duncan, he's read doubles really well too, but IMO Dirk creates more without even touching the ball because defense has to worried about him from every spot on the floor).
Even when you consider Duncan's less efficient free throw shooting, he still got to the line alot, and made teams pay for not being able to cover him off the dribble or keep him off the boards. He took 232 free throws in the '03 playoffs which is the 5th most of all time in a playoff run. He made 157 of them which is the 14th highest amount of all time (right behind Iverson in 2001) and it accounted for about .25% of his scoring. So, while he's not as efficient as Dirk, his free throw-volume was still very elite and he got starting bigs in foul trouble. 10-14 in free throws is only .714%, but it's still 10 free throws in the bank. This, in combination with the rest of his offensive repertoire, and he just beasted.
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06-05-2011, 04:45 AM
#217
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
The Lakers were what, a 4 seed that season?
Shaq missed 15 games.The Lakers (50-32) went 5-10 without him.They had prime Shaq,prime Kobe,Horry,Fisher...
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
And the spurs beat a dirk-less mavs squad past game 3.
The series were probably over before Dirk got hurt.
Game 1 -Duncan 40 pts,15 rb,7 as,1 blk
Game 2 -Duncan 32 pts,15 rb,5 as,3 blk
Game 3 -Duncan 34 pts,24rb,6 as,6 blk
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
Duncan was amazing but to assert that he was significantly better than current dirk is just an insult to basketball.
Duncan always OUTSCORED and outplayed Dirk in their first four postseason meetings (2001-2009).
2001 Western Conference Semifinals / Spurs 4-1 Over Mavs
Duncan averaged 26.8 pts (51%),17.4 rb,3.6 as,2 blk
Dirk averaged 23.0 pts (40%),8.6 rb,1.2 as,0.8 blk
2003 Western Conference Finals / Spurs 4-2 over Mavs
Duncan averaged 28 pts (57%),16.7 rb,5.8 as,3 blk
Dirk averaged 25.3 pts (43%) 11.3 rb,2.0 as,0.7 blk
2006 Western Conference Semifinals / Mavs 4-3 over Spurs
Duncan 32.2 pts (56%),11.7 rbs,3.7 as,2.6 blk
Dirk 27.1 pts (52.7%),13.3 rb,2.7 as,0.4 blk
2009 FR / Mavs 4-1 over Spurs
Duncan 19.8 pts (53%),8 rbs,3.2 as,1.2 blk
Dirk 19.2 pts (49%),8.6 rb,2.2 as,0.6 blk
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
Duncan wasn't anywhere near as good as Dirk on offense.Not even close.
Peak Duncan is more dominant and valuable offensively than any version of Dirk.
Perimeter-oriented players usually have higher ppg than post players;on top of that they are better closers.However,post players like Duncan or Hakeem score at will in the paint and have much higher field goal percentage,thus demanding more double teams.They create so much space for their teammates... that's why 2003 Duncan averages 5.3 assists while 2011 Dirk averages 2.8.On top of that,Duncan is one of the greatest offensive rebounders of all time,therefore he gives his team numerous second chance opportunities.
2003 Duncan 24.7 pts (53%),5.3 as,4.0 offensive rebounds
2011 Dirk 28.1 pts (50%) 2.8 as,0.6 offensive rebounds
Seriously,the ppg guys are out of control.What's next?Iverson better than Shaq on offense?
Regular Season
Iverson 26.7 ppg
Shaq 23.7 ppg
Playoffs
Iverson 29.7 ppg
Shaq 24.3 ppg
On a side note,can you imagine peak Duncan vs. Nick Collison,Ibaka,Joel Anthony,Crish Bosh or the depressed Pau Gasol?
Last edited by Anaximandro1; 06-05-2011 at 07:30 AM.
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06-05-2011, 06:21 AM
#218
Good High School Starter
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
I see some poster said Dallas beat 3 great teams to make it to the Finals. What makes and since when were the Blazers and Thunder great?
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06-05-2011, 06:34 AM
#219
Utah Jazz (6-6)
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
Originally Posted by thomaspynchon
Who was the closer for the Spurs?
We're talking about the 03 spurs.
Who the hell do you think was the closer
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06-05-2011, 02:18 PM
#220
Banned
Re: If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?
With Duncan and Hakeem they both avoided playing either the best team in there conference or the star on the other team was injured as was the case in Dallas in 2003 when the series was tied 2-2 and Dirk was out games 5 and 6.
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