If Dirk wins a title this year, do you put it on par with '94 Hakeem and '03 Duncan?

[Bigsmoke]

lol @ Hakeem and Dirk in the same sentence.

[The Judge]

Dirk is beasting, but why do people act like he does it all by himself?

Sure, he doesn't have a Gasol or a Wade, but what he has is a VERY solid supporting cast around him and each night a different guy steps up and plays that Robin role. The guys always had deep team but in an effort to try and prop him up a lot of his fans discredit his team, which is unfortunate.

The most thankless job in the world is being a teammate of Dirk's.

[Odinn]

It's not just about teammates for me... Duncan and Hakeem - if we're talking about them in particular - were different breeds of players. Both of them at that time were averaging about 43 minutes a game in the playoffs. Not only did Hakeem win MVP that season but he also won Defensive Player Of the Year. He blocked at least 6 shots in one game of every playoff series that year. Duncan blocked 32 shots in the 2003 Finals, which is still the league record since it's counted blocks, and the Spurs defense would not have been what it was without him (David Robinson was 37, post-injury @ 23 MPG in the playoffs). Duncan cumulatively lead the 2003 playoffs in: Minutes, Points, Rebounds, Blocks, Freethrows, and Field Goals. Hakeem cumulatively lead the 1994 playoffs in: Points, Blocks, Freethrows, and Field Goals... Dirk has had 4 games of double-digit rebounding (out of 17 games) and has blocked more than 1 shot in a game just once. Dirk's offense (particularly midrange) has been probably top 1 or 2 in the playoffs this season and he carries the team in that regard, but I don't think the Mavs would be where they are without the defense of Tyson Chandler, Marion, Stevenson, Kidd, and just the help from his team in general. His team is actually really good... and that's not a knock.

[Carbine]

Alright, so if Dirk doesn't belong in that same discussion of players as those two do....how do we explain what he will have gone through to get that ring?

Deepest team 1-8 in the league? Check.

Mini-Dynasty Lakers all healthy - Swept.

Upstart OKC Thunder - Check.

Miami Heat, who have 3 of the 4 best players in the series - Check



To go through those teams with no all-stars is incredible. However, if he's not up to par as a player to those two (Hakeem and Duncan) then how do we explain it?

Luck? Championships aren't won with luck.

Dirk is just that good right now? Apparently not.

So what, this Mavericks team is one of the best TEAMS ever? Is that the conclusion we have come to? Are we not appreciating this current Mavericks team for what it is, which is one of the best single teams ever?

[DMAVS41]

If you don't put this run by Dirk on the same level you simply don't know basketball.

Doesn't mean Dirk is on the Hakeem/Duncan level as a player, just means he elevated his game and led a team that has no business winning it all.

Which is exactly what Dirk would have done if he wins it all.

You can talk about two way play and rebounding...etc.

I will counter that with one of the best scoring runs and clutch play in the playoffs we have ever seen.

I don't think people realize just how amazing he's been so far and how if Dirk was just playing really well and not legendary that the Mavs would probably sitting at home right now.

Given the competition level, I actually lean towards Dirk's run being a little more impressive than Duncan's.

LOL at anyone acting like they aren't on the same level though.

[AlphaWolf24]

If you don't put this run by Dirk on the same level you simply don't know basketball.

Doesn't mean Dirk is on the Hakeem/Duncan level as a player, just means he elevated his game and led a team that has no business winning it all.

Which is exactly what Dirk would have done if he wins it all.

You can talk about two way play and rebounding...etc.

I will counter that with one of the best scoring runs and clutch play in the playoffs we have ever seen.

I don't think people realize just how amazing he's been so far and how if Dirk was just playing really well and not legendary that the Mavs would probably sitting at home right now.

Given the competition level, I actually lean towards Dirk's run being a little more impressive than Duncan's.

LOL at anyone acting like they aren't on the same level though.

This....he is IMO putting together one of the greatest postseason runs in NBA History...watching him this year reminds me alot of Akeem in 94'...

If he does lead the Mavs past Miami I think it will be a greater run then Dreams 94' and Duncan's 03'....While Duncan brought a level of Leadership never seen since Bill Russell's player/Coach Titles in the 60's....Dirk this year has played/set an example for the ages...his walking out on the WCF post game interview has Bill Russell written all over it....his ability to close out games has been 2nd to none..

If he can win it....I believe it will and should be ranked higher then both men.

[jalbert009]

yeah but when he's out the team instantly turns to shit. I would say no team has ever been so dependent on one player as dallas is on Dirk.

I beg to differ. I think Lebrons' Cavs & Dwight's Magic Teams are more heavily reliant on them. At least this Mavs Team have Terry, Marion, Butler and Kidd which are pretty decent. Dont get me wrong, Im not hating on the mavs, I am actually rooting for the Mavs to win.

[jlauber]

This....he is IMO putting together one of the greatest postseason runs in NBA History...watching him this year reminds me alot of Akeem in 94'...

If he does lead the Mavs past Miami I think it will be a greater run then Dreams 94' and Duncan's 03'....While Duncan brought a level of Leadership never seen since Bill Russell's player/Coach Titles in the 60's....Dirk this year has played/set an example for the ages...his walking out on the WCF post game interview has Bill Russell written all over it....his ability to close out games has been 2nd to none..

If he can win it....I believe it will and should be ranked higher then both men.

Your's and DMAV's opinions basically echo mine. I don't think there were too many "experts" that gave Dallas much of a chance before the playoffs started. Meanwhile, the Heat have been EXPECTED to contend for the title since "The Decision." This would be a MONUMENTAL upset. And, no, Dirk does not have anywhere near the supporting cast that would merit where they are at right now. Dirk has put together a run that ranks among the greatest post-seasons ever (maybe not the best...but AMONG the best.)

[SCdac]

Duncan not only lead his team past the Shaq-Kobe dynasty, he also LEAD his team in assists with 5.3 per game through out the playoffs. How that is less impressive than Dirk's current run, on a team with former all-stars, a guard who's scores for you about as much as current Ray Allen or Joe Johnson, a series in which Dirk closed out the Lakers with a 17 point/7 rebound game, is beyond me. Ginobili was a rookie in that 2003 season, and Parker was in his second year shooting .40% from the field and .25% from three. We're talking about two very amazing runs here, Duncan's was more amazing though IMO. I can't even see Dirk putting up say 30-40 games to beat the Heat topping that. It's in the same area sort of, but not quite the same. Imagine Dirk's scoring combined with Tyson Chandler's defensive abilities and shot blocking.

[vinsane01]

Aside from the highlights, I have yet to see the playoff run of hakeem in 94 so i cant comment on that. I have seen some of the games of duncan's playoff run in 03. Tim flat out carried that team. He was the defensive and offensive anchor of that team. Dirk is carrying his mavericks this year but in a different way than how duncan did. Dirk is no doubt an offensive behemoth but he isnt their best defensive player, he is a decent to slightly above average at best. But what he lacks in defense he more than makes up for his clutch performances, an aspect of the game that which the young 03 duncan was still developing. If dallas wins the title this year, it should be in the same discussion but IMO duncan's run was better.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan not only lead his team past the Shaq-Kobe dynasty, he also LEAD his team in assists with 5.3 per game through out the playoffs. How that is less impressive than Dirk's current run, on a team with former all-stars, a guard who's scores for you about as much as current Ray Allen or Joe Johnson, a series in which Dirk closed out the Lakers with a 17 point/7 rebound game, is beyond me. Ginobili was a rookie in that 2003 season, and Parker was in his second year shooting .40% from the field and .25% from three. We're talking about two very amazing runs here, Duncan's was more amazing though IMO. I can't even see Dirk putting up say 30-40 games to beat the Heat topping that. It's in the same area sort of, but not quite the same. Imagine Dirk's scoring combined with Tyson Chandler's defensive abilities and shot blocking.

I'm not saying it is.

I'm saying it should be on the same level.

Honestly though, you are discounting Dirk's play late in these games. He is averaging like 10 points per 4th qtr and has been as clutch or more clutch as any player we've seen in the last 20 years not named MJ. That counts for a lot in my opinion. The clutch play is something to be marveled at.

And another great performance last night. Scored the last 9 points for the Mavs. A 3 with 25 seconds left to break the tie and then the game winner after that. Legendary.

Not to mention one of the best playoff games of all time in game 1 against OKC.

I don't really care how people would rank the runs of Hakeem/Duncan/Dirk/Barry. I just know Dirk belongs in that conversation if the Mavs win it all.

Hopefully its a debate we will end up having.

Go Mavs Go.

[SCdac]

I'm not saying it is.

I'm saying it should be on the same level.

Given the competition level, I actually lean towards Dirk's run being a little more impressive than Duncan's.

If you think this is more impressive than Duncan's run, that's fine. It's your opinion.

I'd laugh at the idea of agreeing with that, or if anyone else agrees though...

In the same conversation, maybe, offensively. But Dirk is no Hakeem or Duncan as far as being an all-around player and his run is coincided by great help from his team, just like any other great team.

Play Dirk with Malik Rose for 23 minutes a night and I'd like to see how far that team goes... Duncan took it to the Finals.

[LA_Showtime]

He's definitely having a special postseason. Even during his "off" games he's more than made up for them, such as last night, when Marion, Chandler, and then Terry carried the Mavericks through stretches of the game and then Dirk closed it out.

[rmt]

True - Dirk has been super-clutch this post-season but as Barkley said of the last game, "He was turrible the first 3 quarters (13 pts)." Marion and Chandler carried them until the 4th quarter (9 pts) when Dirk took over.

I'll give Dirk the clutch ness and the super-wet shots but what's the difference between last year's team that got eliminated in the first round by the Spurs and this year's team that has reached the Finals. IMO, the difference is the defense which is largely due to the presence of Chandler.

Dirk
more clutch
more points

Duncan
more rebounds, assists, blocks
higher field goal percentage
superior defense to Chandler

Dirk 2011 playoffs
28.1 pts / 7.8 rebs / 2.8 asst / .6 blk on 50.5% FG (17 games)

Duncan 2003 playoffs
24.7 pts / 15.4 rebs / 5.3 asst / 3.3 blk on 52.9% FG (24 games)

As far as 2nd options go:

Terry
16.9 pts / 3.2 asst on 46.2% FG

2nd year Parker
14.7 pts / 3.5 asst on 40.3% FG

I think the importance of Hakeem/Duncan's defense is being under-rated in this thread. And looking at the stats, I prefer Duncan's 2003 playoffs over Dirk's 2011 playoffs. I know the excitement from Dirk's clutch shots really gets one going (I know it did for me last game), but I don't see how that's on the same level as all the other things that TD brought to the table (especially the defense).

[gengiskhan]

Hakeem: 1994 NBA MVP.
Dirk: Not even Top 3 MVP candidates

Hakeem: 1994 NBA DPOY.
Dirk:

Hakeem: 1994 Finals MVP against Top 50 GOATs & One of the greatest & most complete centers of all times. PATRICK EWING in full 7 games nail biters

Dirk: possible 2011 finals MVP against Garbage heat center.

this thread is a real joke. ban yourself now.