Hakeem had the greatest peak play than any other player

[LJJ]

Jlauber is using so many bad arguments right now he's actually hurting Chamberlain's cause.

[Dbrog]

That's nice but a lot of what happened could only happen in a certain setting which the early 60s provided. lol @ completely ignoring the different setting the two players played in. In the early 60s, the pace of the league was ridiculous which allowed Wilt to shoot 40 fukking times a game, the league was 70% white (this is a fact, not an estimate) with a lot of stiffs from the 50s crossing over (prime time for someone to be completely ahead of their time), the lane was narrower in his 40+ ppg seasons, you'd need to be playing 45+ minutes even in blowouts (like Wilt) and many stars from the era averaged that many minutes, and on and on and on. Strong logic @ comparing raw stats for raw stats across eras that were so different.

But anyways...

Get back to me when Wilt leads his team to a championship as the leading scorer on his own team in the playoffs.

Get back to me when Wilt routinely raised his game in the playoffs like Hakeem (lol @ mr. GOAT scorer averaging 22 ppg on 52 TS% in the playoffs).

Get back to me when Wilt comes BACK from 3-1 deficits instead of blowing 3-1 leads.

Get back to me when Hakeem is on a 31 win team in his prime in a season he played every game and was healthy (seriously lol @ this, so much for his stats, can't see any other top 10 player on a team that bad especially with couple of other all-stars there with him).

Get back to me when Hakeem's teammates are praising the lord that he got traded because he held them back.

Get back to me when Hakeem is leading a team to the worst record in the league which eventually leads to him getting traded for scrubs.

Get back to me when Hakeem plays on teams that were capable of winning 50+ without him (like Wilt in late 60s) and STILL not winning.

So on and so on. Sorry, you can keep your FG% titles. Wilt btw would purposely not shoot against certain centers to keep his FG% up. But I want an assassin like Hakeem on my team, who at his peak did it all (great scoring, passing, defense all simultaneously), not give you one extreme or the other. There's no question about how well Hakeem's game translates to nowadays either, Wilt meanwhile looks awkward as hell dribbling the ball on his post ups from every game I've seen.

You do realize Wilt had to face the Celtics who had the most HOFers on any team ever right? Anyway...

That 31 win Warriors team was deceptive as Jlauber stated.

As far as his teammates saying he "held them back." Held them back from what? He took them to a FINALS and when he left they went back to the bottom of the league.

As for Wilt leading the 64-65 season Warriors to the worst record, you might want to check your facts first. That was the season he got traded to Phili after only playing 38 games for those Warriors.

Also, you talk about his playoff avg only being 22 pts but you conveniently leave out the 24 rpg. Also, he was a beast scorer until he turned 30 (wasn't just the playoffs. He averaged about the same in the season). Keep in mind, this was also after he had that strange heart condition illness that messed him up in the 64-65 season.

I could keep going but I don't really see the point. You really need to learn your facts before you open your mouth. Wilt shits on Hakeem and that's all there is to it.

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

That's nice but a lot of what happened could only happen in a certain setting which the early 60s provided. lol @ completely ignoring the different setting the two players played in. In the early 60s, the pace of the league was ridiculous which allowed Wilt to shoot 40 fukking times a game, the league was 70% white (this is a fact, not an estimate) with a lot of stiffs from the 50s crossing over (prime time for someone to be completely ahead of their time), the lane was narrower in his 40+ ppg seasons, you'd need to be playing 45+ minutes even in blowouts (like Wilt) and many stars from the era averaged that many minutes, and on and on and on. Strong logic @ comparing raw stats for raw stats across eras that were so different.

But anyways...

Get back to me when Wilt leads his team to a championship as the leading scorer on his own team in the playoffs.

Get back to me when Wilt routinely raised his game in the playoffs like Hakeem (lol @ mr. GOAT scorer averaging 22 ppg on 52 TS% in the playoffs).

Get back to me when Wilt comes BACK from 3-1 deficits instead of blowing 3-1 leads.

Get back to me when Hakeem is on a 31 win team in his prime in a season he played every game and was healthy (seriously lol @ this, so much for his stats, can't see any other top 10 player on a team that bad especially with couple of other all-stars there with him).

Get back to me when Hakeem's teammates are praising the lord that he got traded because he held them back.

Get back to me when Hakeem is leading a team to the worst record in the league which eventually leads to him getting traded for scrubs.

Get back to me when Hakeem plays on teams that were capable of winning 50+ without him (like Wilt in late 60s) and STILL not winning.

So on and so on. Sorry, you can keep your FG% titles. Wilt btw would purposely not shoot against certain centers to keep his FG% up. But I want an assassin like Hakeem on my team, who at his peak did it all (great scoring, passing, defense all simultaneously), not give you one extreme or the other. There's no question about how well Hakeem's game translates to nowadays either, Wilt meanwhile looks awkward as hell dribbling the ball on his post ups from every game I've seen.

one of the best yet

[Harison]

I dont think Hakeem had greatest peak, but he was up there.

You do realize Wilt had to face the Celtics who had the most HOFers on any team ever right? Anyway...

Easy to answer, most of them got in HoF because of Russell. If Wilt's team would have won 11 rings instead, we would see the opposite - his team would suddenly be super stacked with HoF while Russells wouldnt, winning changes perception.

As far as his teammates saying he "held them back." Held them back from what? He took them to a FINALS and when he left they went back to the bottom of the league.

And now check what Wilt's teammates were saying, in any of his team. Even Jerry West was very critical of Wilt and said he was bad teammate.

Also, you talk about his playoff avg only being 22 pts but you conveniently leave out the 24 rpg. Also, he was a beast scorer until he turned 30 (wasn't just the playoffs. He averaged about the same in the season). Keep in mind, this was also after he had that strange heart condition illness that messed him up in the 64-65 season.

Wilt's regular season average: 30PPG, Playoffs 22 PPG. Wilt was playing worse in the Playoffs, fact. There are many players who played better than Wilt in the post-season, fact.

I could keep going but I don't really see the point. You really need to learn your facts before you open your mouth. Wilt shits on Hakeem and that's all there is to it.

In the Regular season sure, even DRob "shit" on Hakeem in the Regular season, we know how it turned out in the Playoffs. Same can be said about Wilt, another Regular season powerhouse who got his butt kicked over and over again in the Playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

Wilt>Duncan>Hakeem

Not hard.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wilt>Duncan>Hakeem

Not hard.

Reverse that and it's correct.

[BlueandGold]

Yep... 118.8 ppg in Wilt's 50.4 ppg scoring season...109.9 ppg in MJ's 37.1 ppg season. And Chamberlain averaging 39 ppg at the halfway point of the '65 season, in a league with a WIDENED lane...(and then averaging 33.5 ppg on .540 shooting the very next season...in a league that shot .433.)

Or Wilt averaging 24.1 ppg, 24.3 rpg, 7.8 apg, and shooting .683 in the '67 season, in a nine team league that had Zelmo Beatty (a Five time all-star), Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, and Bill Russell (as well as Jerry Lucas and Wayne Embry)...ALL but Beatty in the HOF.

And Wilt playing 45 mpg...over the course of his ENTIRE CAREER...and an even more remarkable 47.2 mpg over the course of his ENTIRE 160 post-season games.



Well, he did LEAD TWO of his TEAMs to WORLD titles. Not sure what the relevance of that is. He LED his team's in scoring in his post-season career, and with pathetic rosters, SIX times....FOUR of them at 33+. Of course, he LED his team in REBOUNDING EVERY post-season he played. Unlike Hakeem.



Interesting...how many 33.0 ppg post-seasons did Hakeem have? How many 39 ppg post-season series did Hakeem have? How many 50+ point games (and two of them in ELIMINATION games...and two more on top of that) did Hakeem have? How many 45-27 games did Hakeem have in his Finals?



Chamberlain, on ONE-LEG, did LEAD his team back from a 3-1 series deficit in the '70 playoffs. And in the ONLY series in which his TEAM lost a 3-1 edge, they were without HOF Cunningham for the ENTIRE series. Then Luke Jackson AND Wali Jones were injured in game five, as well as Wilt NOTICEABLY LIMPING from game three thru game seven (nope...no coincidence there that they then lost a 3-1 series lead.)



Yep ...the WORST roster in NBA history. How bad was that roster (which had 16 different players, several of whom never played again)? Their new coach in the following season held a scrimmage with those players and against rookies and scrubs...and they LOST. Of course Fecal fails to mention another FACT...that Wilt then took that same basic laughingstock roster to a 48-32 record, and into the Finals that very NEXT season.

Of course, it was WILT's fault that they went 31-49, right? After all, he LED the NBA in FIFTEEN of the 22 statistical categories...including scoring and by a 10.8 margin, rebounding, FG% (a nw record at the time...which he would shatter THREE more times) WIN-SHARES, and a PER of 31.8 which is STILL the all-time record. BTW, while Wilt shot .528, his teammates collectively shot .412. Oh, with that cast of clowns, they had a -2.1 scoring differential, and lost 35 games by single digits. And they were only involved in eight 20+ games all-season, going 4-4. Furthermore, Wilt's team went 1-8 against the Celtics and their NINE HOFErs (without a single one on his own team), and lost six of them by single digits. And all Wilt did in those nine games was to outscore Russell, per game, 38-14.



Give me those examples of players that Wilt "held back." Maybe Cunningham, who was a SIXTH man in Philly, or Walker, who was their FOURTH option. Maybe Thurmond, who was a rookie with Wilt, playing part-time and out of position (and like he would ever have been better than Wilt on the same team.) Maybe Baylor, who was already on the decline by the time Wilt arrived...and he played AWFUL even while Wilt was sacrificing HIS scoring. West had his greatest seasons with Wilt. Goodrich...best season ever with Wilt. Even your goofball "all-star" Meschery had his CAREER best season with Wilt. As did "HOFer" Gola.

That list is pretty short.




He was traded" from the Warriors, and they went 17-63. Meanwhile, Wilt took a team that had been 34-46 the year before, to a 40-40 record, and then a game seven, one-point loss against the 62-18 Celtics. THEN, he LED the Sixers to the BEST record in the league over the course of each of the nest three seasons, including a 68-13 team that won a dominating title...and STILL holds the team record for best record.

And, after he FORCED his "trade" from the Sixers, he IMMEDIATELY led LA to their best ever record in Los Angeles...FOUR Finals in his FIVE seasons (and a WCF's in the other,... withOUT BOTH Baylor and West BTW), including a 69-13 mark in '72, which is STILL a team record. BTW, Philly got progressively WORSE every season after that trade, and by Wilt's last season in the league, they had plummetted to a 9-73 record.

Incidently, in Wilt's first season in LA, he REPLACED a TOTAL of 42 ppg and 18 rpg...and even with West missing 20 games...they still posted that best ever record....which they would break again in '72.



That ONE team that Wilt left that won 55 games, came in a trade for THREE players, who not only had averaged 29 ppg and 15.1 rpg...BUT they then averaged 37.7 ppg and 20.2 rpg collectively in the post-season...and were WIPED out by a 48-34 Celtic team, 4-1, in the FIRST ROUND. Just the year before, the 62-20 Sixers, with FOUR of their starters playing INJURED (and one of them not playing at all)...lost a game seven in the ECF's by four points. And, of course, the year before that they had gone 68-13 and won a dominating title.

BTW, Hakeem played on 42-40 teams. And THREE of his team's lost to lower seeds. But the most GLARING stat...EIGHT FIRS-ROUND exits in 15 playoff seasons, over HALF.



Chamberlain was the best defensive player in the league in '67 and '68, while averaging 24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, 7.8 apg and shooting .683 in one season...and then 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, 8.6 apg (and LEADING the league) and shooting
.595 in the other.

And not sure what footage YOU were looking at (if ANY.) Maybe in his LAST season, at age 36, when he was voted FIRST-TEAM All-Defense, LED the NBA in rebounding (and then averaged 22.5 rpg over the course of his 17 post-season games...in a league that averaged 51.6 rpg), AND set a FG% mark of .727. How was Hakeem doing at age 36 BTW...especially in the post-season, when he averaged 13.3 ppg, 7.3 rpg (a good QUARTER for Wilt even in his LAST season), and on .426 shooting. AND, at age 35 Wilt was, by virtually ALL accounts, outplaying a PRIME Kareem, and then leading his Lakers to a title...and winning the Finals MVP in the process.

Pwnt.

[thomaspynchon]

I'll take Shaq's peak over Hakeem's thank you very much.

I won't.

[gengiskhan]

Period.

Agreed.

1994 : NBA MVP + NBA DPOY + NBA Finals MVP

followed by

1988: NBA MVP + NBA DPOY + All Star MVP + Back-2-back Slam Dunk Champion + NBA Scoring Champion + NBA Steals Champion

No matter how many all star accolades MJ won in 1988. Hakeem's Finals MVP win over Ewing clearly overshadows anything MJ did.

[Mikaiel]

Even Jerry West was very critical of Wilt and said he was bad teammate.

Link ?

[HighFlyer23]

Wilt would barely make the D-League today

[millwad]

If Wilt had the same skills and was playing today he would play in the swedish basketball league, lol..

Back to topic, Hakeem had a GOAT-type peak and someone mentioned Shaq..
Lol, who did peak Shaq play against that was any good? When Shaq won his titles he was the only good center around, no Hakeem's, Robinson's, Ewing's, Jabbars etc.. An old Dikembe Mutombo at and a PF in Tim Duncanbest, lol... And Shaq couldn't hit FT's for his life and his defense was not even close to Hakeem's..

[Harison]

Link ?

Wilt's biography "Goliath", or Bill Simmons book, loads of quotes.

Jerry West (in Goliath):

[IGOTGAME]

are people really serious with this? Hakeem is the most overrated player on ISH by far.

Players with greater peaks than Hakeem...

-Kareem
-Wilt
-Jordan
-Shaq
-Bird
-Magic
-Duncan

what a joke. such revisionist history going on here.

[AirJordan&Magic]

'93-'95 Hakeem > any multiple year stretch by Wilt

Agreed.