Lets Be Real: The overrating of Wade's 2011 Finals performance has to STOP!

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Despite the fact it was shoddy officiating, you still have to give Wade credit. He still had a legendary series.

[97 bulls]

You act like the Miami Heat wasn't without it's share of injuries.. Miller was playing with two banged up thumbs, Haslem was still recovering from a major injury, Jones had a foot injury and was unable to play, And Wade who had been dominant in the first four games got injured in game 5 and his play suffered the rest of the way. Bibby who had been such a blackhole in every respect that they decided to start House who hadn't played until I believe the last game of the series. And Lebron's passiveness only compounded matters.

You're right. But they played. Dallas had their share of injuries and in my opinion, loosing your backup center and having dirk play with a bad finger were big hits to the mavs. And they overcame them. Haslem isn't the type of player whose contributions are dependant on scoring. I don't see him playing much better thanwhat he shoowed in the final. The same with bibby. But I agree miller was visibly hurt. Either way the heat should've won.

[97 bulls]

What makes Wades failures any worse than Lebrons or Kobes

Wade- missed the playoffs 08, lost in the first round 09 and 10, lost in the finals 11, lost in the Olympics
Lebron- missed the playoffs 04 and 05, lost in the finals 07 and 11, lost in the Olympics, could not get to the finals with 60 win team 09 and 10
Kobe- missed the playoffs 05, lost in the finals 04 and 08, got swept by Dallas 11

Wade has had 2 chances in his whole career to win a ring 06, 11 Lebron has had 4 teams that had a chance to win 07, 09,10, 11 Kobe has had a good enough team his career not including 05-07. Out of the 3 of them Wade has the most legit reasons to why he came up short in those times.

Your correct as far as the lebron/kobe/ wade comparisons. But kobe does have 5 championship multiple scoring titles and an mvp as well as 2 finals mvps. James is still building his resume but has accomplished more than wade in my opinion also.

[97 bulls]

97 bulls is a tool, and presents a strong Bulls bias in 90% of his post. This guy really said Pippen was greater than Magic?

Lol im a tool? Most fans are biased towards their teams. But the way dmavs worded that question is why I answered it the way I did. If he asked me who would I rank higher? I would've said magic. He didn't ask that question. And then he didn't really care to read my response once I said id choose pippen to run my franchise over magic. The fact is I know what im gonna get with pippen with minimal talent. Magic I don't know. Hell with the way magic is. If he was on a bad team, he may even jump ship. And im confident that with equal help, could lead a team to multiple championships as magic did. Am I wrong?

Just to show how bull headed dmavs is. I said I was more impressed with what shawn marion did in this final playing lebron james than what dirk was doing. He takes that as me saying marion was playing better than dirk. His comprehension is extremly limited.

[indiefan24]

Lol im a tool? Most fans are biased towards their teams. But the way dmavs worded that question is why I answered it the way I did. If he asked me who would I rank higher? I would've said magic. He didn't ask that question. And then he didn't really care to read my response once I said id choose pippen to run my franchise over magic. The fact is I know what im gonna get with pippen with minimal talent. Magic I don't know. Hell with the way magic is. If he was on a bad team, he may even jump ship. And im confident that with equal help, could lead a team to multiple championships as magic did. Am I wrong?

Just to show how bull headed dmavs is. I said I was more impressed with what shawn marion did in this final playing lebron james than what dirk was doing. He takes that as me saying marion was playing better than dirk. His comprehension is extremly limited.

No one will stop gyno

[KOLBCTEW]

loosing your backup center

Losing one of your three point specialists in Jones especially when the other in Miller was as hampered as he was is big as well.

having dirk play with a bad finger were big hits to the mavs. And they overcame them.

Bad finger on his non-shooting hand.... Rly?? That was a big hit??? Numerous analysts came out saying that would be a virtual non-issue.

The same with bibby.

http://www.zimbio.com/Mike+Bibby/art...ayoffs+History
Bibby was literally setting records with his ineffective play on both ends of the floor. Putting up arguably the worst stats for a starter in nba playoff history.

Either way the heat should've won.

That I agree with.

[DMAVS41]

And just to show how consistant I am, the same reason I hold wade back in the all-time rankings is the same reaosn I hold back pippen. Wades lack of body of work and failures hurt him. How many top 25 players could loose to a team when they're the favorite, homecourt advantage, plenty of help, and with the opposing team havings injuries to key players? Im even confident that pippen would've won if he were put under the same conditions. But pippens lack of body of work hurts him too. I mean, he has 6 championships, but those are more of a team accomplishment than personal. He's top 25 in my opinion cuz he's arguably the greatest defender ever from the perimeter. I hold him in such a high regard cuz I saw what he could do with minimal talent. And ill ask you a question, who could've done better than pippen did in his two years leading a team under those conditions? Magic? Jordan? Dirk? Wilt? Bird? Definately not wade. The best he could do with similarly talented teams is 500. Unfortuantely for pippen he didn't have a legit 5 years to show whether or not he could win with a super talented team but with him as the best player. Its unfortunate cuz it hurts his overall ranking.

Now as far as talent. The fact is the top 50 players are not that far apart when it comes to talent. So when you say magic is twice the player pippen is.... that not realistic. Magic was in a better position than pippen was. Doesn't mean he's better. He's definately ranked higher than pippen. But no I don't think magic is a better basketball player than pippen in the sense of talent. Give pippen dikembe mutombo (kareem) prime shawn marion (worthy) bruce bowen (cooper) undonis haslem (green) kevin martin (scott) and they run the league. And hold their opponants to 70 ppg. And pippen would be the best player on that team. Alot has to do with a players situation. Or at least that's how I look at it.

Are you serious with the bold? We just saw Kobe and Shaq both do that in 04. They nearly got swept. It was one of the biggest finals upsets in NBA history. They are both top 10 players. Not to mention that Wade actually played well.....Kobe was awful. Huge difference.

This is why I hate ranking players so heavily on team accomplishments. Wade played great in the Finals this year overall. Much better than Kobe did last year. The difference? Kobe's teammates stepped up. Wade's didn't. Lebron and Bosh were a joke in the Finals. An absolute joke. If Wade plays the exact same and Lebron/Bosh just play a little better and the Heat win....people are talking about Wade in the top 15 all time and talking about him as one of the best finals performers ever.

You just over-rate the shit out of Pippen man. There is no way around it. If Pippen had been the man on his team for his entire career, he might have a title, but more often than not his team would fall short because he wouldn't be the best player on the floor almost every single time in the later rounds in the playoffs. He'd run up against a player like Hakeem or Robinson or Magic or Malone or Barkley.....and he'd lose.

Wade? Nah....he could be the best player against some of those guys for a series. Pippen? Nope. Thats the difference.

[Ikill]

Are you serious with the bold? We just saw Kobe and Shaq both do that in 04. They nearly got swept. It was one of the biggest finals upsets in NBA history. They are both top 10 players. Not to mention that Wade actually played well.....Kobe was awful. Huge difference.

This is why I hate ranking players so heavily on team accomplishments. Wade played great in the Finals this year overall. Much better than Kobe did last year. The difference? Kobe's teammates stepped up. Wade's didn't. Lebron and Bosh were a joke in the Finals. An absolute joke. If Wade plays the exact same and Lebron/Bosh just play a little better and the Heat win....people are talking about Wade in the top 15 all time and talking about him as one of the best finals performers ever.

You just over-rate the shit out of Pippen man. There is no way around it. If Pippen had been the man on his team for his entire career, he might have a title, but more often than not his team would fall short because he wouldn't be the best player on the floor almost every single time in the later rounds in the playoffs. He'd run up against a player like Hakeem or Robinson or Magic or Malone or Barkley.....and he'd lose.

Wade? Nah....he could be the best player against some of those guys for a series. Pippen? Nope. Thats the difference.

[97 bulls]

Are you serious with the bold? We just saw Kobe and Shaq both do that in 04. They nearly got swept. It was one of the biggest finals upsets in NBA history. They are both top 10 players. Not to mention that Wade actually played well.....Kobe was awful. Huge difference.
this is true. But its still a reare occurance. Very rare

This is why I hate ranking players so heavily on team accomplishments. Wade played great in the Finals this year overall. Much better than Kobe did last year. The difference? Kobe's teammates stepped up. Wade's didn't. Lebron and Bosh were a joke in the Finals. An absolute joke. If Wade plays the exact same and Lebron/Bosh just play a little better and the Heat win....people are talking about Wade in the top 15 all time and talking about him as one of the best finals performers ever.
this is what's amazing you say pippen couldn't win for whatever reason but then say wades teammates are to blame for the heats loss?

You just over-rate the shit out of Pippen man. There is no way around it. If Pippen had been the man on his team for his entire career, he might have a title, but more often than not his team would fall short because he wouldn't be the best player on the floor almost every single time in the later rounds in the playoffs. He'd run up against a player like Hakeem or Robinson or Magic or Malone or Barkley.....and he'd lose.
I know, I know I overrate the shit out of pippen. You still can't tell me why. You just keep saying it. You wont answer my questions. You just keep accusing.
Wade? Nah....he could be the best player against some of those guys for a series. Pippen? Nope. Thats the difference.
sure as long as the refs continue to send him to the line at an amzing rate. A rate that not even wilt chamberlain or shaq could meet even when they were intentionally fouled

You will continue to discredit pippen. I understand that. Ill even concede wade will get a few more rings. But the difference is and you have no rebutal for this, is PIPPEN NEVER HAD THE CHANCES TO PROVE WHAT HE COULD DO WHILE WADE HAS.

Why you can't comprehend this is sheerly bull-headed. Do you understand the difference between a guy that can't and never had a chance? Barkley couldn't get it done. He had 8 years to do it. Same with malone, the list goes on and on.

Your lack of reasoning is your flaw.

[DMAVS41]

You will continue to discredit pippen. I understand that. Ill even concede wade will get a few more rings. But the difference is and you have no rebutal for this, is PIPPEN NEVER HAD THE CHANCES TO PROVE WHAT HE COULD DO WHILE WADE HAS.

Why you can't comprehend this is sheerly bull-headed. Do you understand the difference between a guy that can't and never had a chance? Barkley couldn't get it done. He had 8 years to do it. Same with malone, the list goes on and on.

Your lack of reasoning is your flaw.

Because I saw Pippen play nearly every single game of his career and he just wasn't as good as those guys.

He was a 2nd option for a reason. He had a skill set that would flourish being the 2nd banana. If you asked him to carry a team he simply would not have been able to do it on the level of the guys we are talking about.


Basically, what you are saying is that KG is the best player of all time. He certainly has a bigger impact on both ends than Pippen did. Jesus man. If you think Pippen is better than Magic. Where the hell do you rank KG? KG was just a better version of Pippen.....much better I might add.

You value all around play and think that wins. I don't think that trumps the the things that more specialized players bring to the table.

[Kargo]

You're right. But they played. Dallas had their share of injuries and in my opinion, loosing your backup center and having dirk play with a bad finger were big hits to the mavs. And they overcame them. Haslem isn't the type of player whose contributions are dependant on scoring. I don't see him playing much better thanwhat he shoowed in the final. The same with bibby. But I agree miller was visibly hurt. Either way the heat should've won.

Why,because that would have made the Bulls look better?

The better team won.

[97 bulls]

Because I saw Pippen play nearly every single game of his career and he just wasn't as good as those guys.
what we saw was pippen playing a role. Next to what most people feel is the greatest player ever. That means anybody that's played next to jordan woudve been the second best player on the team
He was a 2nd option for a reason. He had a skill set that would flourish being the 2nd banana. If you asked him to carry a team he simply would not have been able to do it on the level of the guys we are talking about.
here comes that wording thing again. When you say second option do you mean second best player? Or second option in the context of scorer? Cuz there's plenty of teams that I put put together that would dominate and with pippen as the best player

Basically, what you are saying is that KG is the best player of all time. He certainly has a bigger impact on both ends than Pippen did. Jesus man. If you think Pippen is better than Magic. Where the hell do you rank KG? KG was just a better version of Pippen.....much better I might add.
the knock on garnett was that he shied away from the big shots. And yes I do rank him higher than pippen. But he was a taller version of pippen. But unlike pippen garnett had roughly 8 years to lead a team to a championship.
You value all around play and think that wins. I don't think that trumps the the things that more specialized players bring to the table.
I agree versitlily doesn't trump big time scorers. And vice versa. Case and point. Magic was the best player on the showtime lakers. And his style was versitle. And he was great at passing. But he was probably the 3rd best scorer on the showtime lakers behind worthy and jabaar.

I honestly think we have a fundamental difference in how we rank players. Mine makes more sense cuz I dont allow players styles to cloud my judgement. I understand the difference between "talent" and "ranking". Shaq was more talented than olajuwan. But I would take olajuwan over him. But due to resume shaq is higher. Now we can discuss the circumstances that makes shaq higher. Cuz there certainly there.

I understand that due to players styles they're gonna take over a game in a different way. You feel if a player doesn't score 8 straight points in the 4th then he can't take over games. And while I agree you obviously have to put the ball in the basket, its just not that simple. No more simple than me saying if you have enough wood, you can build a house. Im just trying to get you to think outside the box bro.

Basketball has evolved from the 60s,70s, and 80s when the object was centered around scoring. Even in this years draft. I was amzed at how high guys that are more known for defense were being taken. Even non centers.

The views on what's great are changing and you need to change with it.

[97 bulls]

Why,because that would have made the Bulls look better?

The better team won.

How would the heat winning make the bulls better?

[LA_Showtime]

You know what I think is funny? Gyno said the only reason he rags on Kobe is because he's overrated on these boards. Well, Kobe lost, and he really isn't overrated because most people agree he belongs in the 8-12 range, and yet Gyno just keeps up doing his thing. Interesting.