Dirk Is Great, But Lets Take It Easy

[blablabla]

some guys think his better than the big ticket

[DMAVS41]

Where do you rank him then? Maybe I overrated Stockton, who is one of my favorite players ever, but it's not like you have no bias towards Dirk. Never averaged double digits through a season. He's gotten close though so I'll cut him some slack.

I rank Dirk around 15 all time.

He's absolutely top 20 for sure. There is no way you can rank 20 other players over Dirk the way people do the rankings.

11 straight seasons of over 50 wins...a title, mvp, and finals mvp during that time.

Only Magic, Russell, Kareem, and Duncan have done that.

Dirk is 8th all time in ppg in the playoffs.

26/10/3 for his career in the playoffs.

Best elimination game player of the last 20 years.

Never lost a game 7 (5-0)...in 3 of those games Dirk had over 30 and 10.

Dirk is one of only like 5 superstars since 1975 to win a title without the help of an elite (all nba or top 15) 2nd option

I could go on and on. He's absolutely even with or ahead of guys like Malone and Barkley....and he's in that range of Pettit, KG, Erving.....


As for Stockton? Somewhere between 25 to 30 all time. There is no doubt stockton was a great player and one of the best ever, but there is really no standard or criteria you could use to rank him over Dirk.

Dirk has had more regular season and playoff success. Dirk has better numbers. Dirk has an MVP. Dirk has much better advanced stats.

And Dirk did it all rarely playing with a top 20 player in the league on his team. Stockton had a top 20 player of all time at his side for the majority of his career.

[knickswin]

some guys think his better than the big ticket

I think he is better than the big ticket

[RazorBaLade]

regardless of whether or not i agree with gino, can you not argue good vs bad? you match up stocktons failures vs dirks greatest moments, how about failures vs failures and successes vs successes? it would make it closer than youre tryin to make it

[DMAVS41]

regardless of whether or not i agree with gino, can you not argue good vs bad? you match up stocktons failures vs dirks greatest moments, how about failures vs failures and successes vs successes? it would make it closer than youre tryin to make it

how do you define failure and success?

Was 97 a success for the Jazz? They were favored to make the finals....and they lost.

How does that compare to the Mavs making it to the finals in 06 as huge underdogs to get out of the 2nd round.....and they lost in the finals?

Based on realistic expectations, Dirk would have less failures and more successes for sure.....especially considering Dirk and the Mavs have now over-achieved more often than they have under-achieved.

Did Stockton and Malone ever over-achieve really? I'd have to look in depth at it, but I do know they lost a lot of times as favorites. 95, 96, 99, and 01 come to mind.....and i'm sure there are more if I looked at it.

[rmt]

5 players in NBA history have led teams to 50 plus wins ten or more seasons in a row and won a title, mvp, and finals mvp.

Russell
Magic
Kareem
Duncan
Dirk


...........

So MJ with his 6 titles, 6 Finals MVPs and 5 MVPs doesn't make this list because CHI didn't have 10 or more 50 plus seasons in a row. Way to cherry pick so Dirk join some arbitrary list with KAJ (6 MVPs), Russell (5 MVPs) and Magic and Duncan (3 Finals MVPs each).

The article is spot on - especially "he lacks certain things that most of those players in that upper echelon possess, such as a dominant impact on the defensive end. Or some other skill to fall back on when his shot isn't falling (in game 6, when he was busy going 4-21 through 3 quarters, what else was Dirk doing to try to impact the game? Not a whole lot)."

[DMAVS41]

So MJ with his 6 titles, 6 Finals MVPs and 5 MVPs doesn't make this list because CHI didn't have 10 or more 50 plus seasons in a row. Way to cherry pick so Dirk join some arbitrary list with KAJ (6 MVPs), Russell (5 MVPs) and Magic and Duncan (3 Finals MVPs each).

The article is spot on - especially "he lacks certain things that most of those players in that upper echelon possess, such as a dominant impact on the defensive end. Or some other skill to fall back on when his shot isn't falling (in game 6, when he was busy going 4-21 through 3 quarters, what else was Dirk doing to try to impact the game? Not a whole lot)."

Jordan doesn't make the list. Doesn't mean Dirk is better. What?

The article is not spot on at all. Nobody is comparing Dirk to Duncan or Hakeem all time.

Stockton? Thomas? Barkley? Malone? Erving? KG? These are all guys that are not clearly better than Dirk.

Dirk is a great defensive rebounder. He's also so good offensively with his shooting/scoring that his mere presence on the court is a benefit.

You want more? How about 1 of 4 guys that averaged 25/10 for his career in the playoffs...another arbitrary list?

How about 1 of 13 players in NBA history to have 10 all star appearances, a mvp, a title, and finals mvp....another arbitrary list?

Seems to me that Dirk is on a lot of those cherry picked lists....and he's done it playing with less help than any of the top 15 players of all time played with....much worse actually.

LOL........good luck having stockton lead a team to a title as the sole superstar.

[DMAVS41]

Lets discuss Dirk more in depth.

11 straight seasons of over 50 wins.
The 2nd best win percentage in the NBA since 1999 including the playoffs. Only the Spurs have won more games.

So his regular season success is elite. There is no debating that. And again, he's done it playing with overall less help than all of the guys that have had similar regular season success.

So lets talk about the playoffs

9th all time in free throws made
12th all time in free throw attempts
10th all time in free throw percentage
Holds the best playoff run free throw percentage of all time as his volume

11th all time in defensive rebounds
26th all time in total rebounds
29th all time in rebounds per game

8th all time in points per game


Now for the really good stuff:

Dirk's TS percentage is number 1 all time in the playoffs for any player to average over 25 points per game

Dirk has the 7th best PER in playoff history

Dirk averages the 5th most win shares per 48 in playoff history....behind only MJ, MIkan, Lebron, and Magic

Dirk is 14th all time in win shares in playoff history

Dirk is 7th all time in offensive win shares in playoff history

Dirk is 16th all time in offensive rating in playoff history


And there is a lot more......


You don't accomplish all of that by being a one dimensional player. Dirk has now played 11 quality years in the NBA and has the numbers and resume to match almost any player not in the top 12 all time.

He's easily a top 20 player and absolutely belongs in the discussion that pettit, erving, KG, barkley, and malone range as a player.

[indiefan23]

Stockton?

The guy that played his entire career with one of the 20 best players ever and only made 2 finals. No titles.....and was a much worse playoff performer than Dirk.

There is absolutely no argument for Stockton over Dirk. Not one.

Dirk beats him in every area other than longevity....and even then its getting close because Dirk already has 11 great years....

Dirk is great, but Stockton is very arguable the greatest PG of all time and put up the highest APG mark ever. Of the top 10 assist % seasons, I think he has what, 6 or 7 of them? Dirk is great, but what's he done that compares with that? As if Malone made Stockton. ;0

[indiefan23]

regardless of whether or not i agree with gino, can you not argue good vs bad? you match up stocktons failures vs dirks greatest moments, how about failures vs failures and successes vs successes? it would make it closer than youre tryin to make it

Yea, seriously, Stockton pushed the Bulls to 6 games twice in the finals. Dirk went out to the Warriors in the first round. The truth lies in the middle.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Stockton?
Thomas?

LOL....sorry. You lose all cred there.

Barkley?
Erving?
Garnett?

Definitely debatable at this point.

5 players in NBA history have led teams to 50 plus wins ten or more seasons in a row and won a title, mvp, and finals mvp.

Russell
Magic
Kareem
Duncan
Dirk


...........

Dirk's championship probably puts him over for me, but you know Charles was a total beast. Excellent scoring volume on RED HOT efficiency and ridiculous on the boards. Only thing that kept him from Larry O was the 41-PPG-ON-51%-IN-THE-FINALS freight train that was '93 MJ.

[Go Getter]

Stockton was better than Dirk.

John played both sides of the floor and was a tough competitor (on defense as well as offense)...at 6 feet he went to the rim stronger than Dirk

I'm not going to bash or point out my opinion on the subject much because Dirk fans/Mavs fans deserve their time in the sun.

But I agree with the OP...the Dirk overrating is at an all-time high.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk is great, but Stockton is very arguable the greatest PG of all time and put up the highest APG mark ever. Of the top 10 assist % seasons, I think he has what, 6 or 7 of them? Dirk is great, but what's he done that compares with that? As if Malone made Stockton. ;0

You should change your article and replace Dirk with Stockton.

This is just laughable.

Now stockton didn't win because he didn't have enough help? Holy shit. I've officially heard it all.

[DMAVS41]

Stockton was better than Dirk.

John played both sides of the floor and was a tough competitor (on defense as well as offense)...at 6 feet he went to the rim stronger than Dirk

I'm not going to bash or point out my opinion on the subject much because Dirk fans/Mavs fans deserve their time in the sun.

But I agree with the OP...the Dirk overrating is at an all-time high.

Its not just Mavs fans. Pretty much every basketball historian that knows anything would rank Dirk in the top 20 now.

I've never seen stockton in the top 20 on any list before.

[Go Getter]

You should change your article and replace Dirk with Stockton.

This is just laughable.

Now stockton didn't win because he didn't have enough help? Holy shit. I've officially heard it all.

If Dirk's career lined up with MJ's, Magic's, Bird's, KAJ, Hakeem, etc he would most likely be ringless as well.