The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

[WeGetRing2012]

I think that is going way too far as Lebron still has a lot of years left.

I hurt his legacy no doubt, but Kobe of all people has had plenty of failings in the playoffs and finals.

We can speculate on what is likely or not, but writing off a player is something that should never really be done.

Cough....Dirk...Cough

Thats just not true. As he come up short during some runs yeah but most players have. But you know without a doubt that he gave 110% at all times. There is no way you can get 5 rings as a main guy without being great when your team needs you the most. Can you say the same about Lebron? Hell no. When it gets tough for him he just quits and heading into his 9th year and still playing like this is not Kobe-like,Jordan-Like, or Greatest basketball player-like.

[WeGetRing2012]

Kobe hasn't been that good in the Finals either, and I wouldn't say he's been that much better in the other rounds of the playoffs either. I could easily see lebron still ending up as thw better player.

5-7 not that great?

[Samurai Swoosh]

I could easily see lebron still ending up as thw better player.

Good point. Kobe lost in two Finals. Didn't play particularly well in 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2010.

Needs to polish up some skills, lose some weight so he can still take people off the dribble, keep his defensive intensity up (played bad defense in the Finals) and you're absolutely right.

[Da Heroic One]

Good point. Kobe lost in two Finals. Didn't play particularly well in 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2010.

Needs to polish up some skills, lose some weight so he can still take people off the dribble, keep his defensive intensity up (played bad defense in the Finals) and you're absolutely right.

so he is never going to be better than kobe?

[Samurai Swoosh]

so he is never going to be better than kobe?

Huh?

[Da Heroic One]

Huh?

you're saying once lebron does all of that he will be better than kobe right? the chances of him doing any of that are slim to none. he is never going to have a post game, he supposedly got one or was working on it in the summer of 2009 but he never did.

lebron doesn't have the work-ethic or heart that kobe has, lebron is like tommy gunn from rocky v.

[WeGetRing2012]

Good point. Kobe lost in two Finals. Didn't play particularly well in 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2010.

Needs to polish up some skills, lose some weight so he can still take people off the dribble, keep his defensive intensity up (played bad defense in the Finals) and you're absolutely right.

Kobe played fine in 2000,2008,and 2010 (dont let 6/24 fool you go back and look at the box scores).

[Jacks3]

Kobe played fine in 2000,2008,and 2010 (dont let 6/24 fool you go back and look at the box scores).

lol @ swoosh listing 2000 when he wasn't even in his prime/ considered a superstar back then.

2004/2008--Played poorly BUT it was against the two best defenses ever.

In fact, NO superstar EVER has played better defenses than what Bryant has seen in the playoffs. http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/29/...tition-part-i/

[Samurai Swoosh]

you're saying once lebron does all of that he will be better than kobe right?

No, I was saying that is what LeBron needs to do for himself.

Skill wise he's never going to be Kobe.

But if he just does LeBron, polishes up some stuff for his own game, produce like he was in 2009 and 2010.

He absolutely can be better than Kobe if he racks up some rings. Even more important would be to maybe get a few more MVP trophies too.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe hasn't been that good in the Finals either, and I wouldn't say he's been that much better in the other rounds of the playoffs either. I could easily see lebron still ending up as thw better player.

Correct on the first part, but as far as the other rounds? Kobe's 2001, 2008, 2009 and 2010 playoff runs were great and considerably better than any of Lebron's with the exception of 2009.

Also, I don't see Lebron having the type of longevity Kobe did. I've said for a while that I think 2009 will remain Lebron's peak. Lebron's peak was arguably as good or better than Kobe's, but I don't think his prime will be better ultimately, nor do I think he'll be able to match Kobe's accomplishments.

[Da Heroic One]

No, I was saying that is what LeBron needs to do for himself.

Skill wise he's never going to be Kobe.

But if he just does LeBron, polishes up some stuff for his own game, produce like he was in 2009 and 2010.

He absolutely can be better than Kobe if he racks up some rings. Even more important would be to maybe get a few more MVP trophies too.

yeah he is probably not gonna do that either.

[thejumpa]

Correct on the first part, but as far as the other rounds? Kobe's 2001, 2008, 2009 and 2010 playoff runs were great and considerably better than any of Lebron's with the exception of 2009.

Also, I don't see Lebron having the type of longevity Kobe did. I've said for a while that I think 2009 will remain Lebron's peak. Lebron's peak was arguably as good or better than Kobe's, but I don't think his prime will be better ultimately, nor do I think he'll be able to match Kobe's accomplishments.

When you say "peak", what are you referring to? Stats? Overall athleticism?

I say this because the general consensus is that he is a player with a few flaws. Shaky post game, shaky mid range game, relied too much on his athleticism, etc. If he comes back a more polished player than he ever has and still is an elite athlete and player, then how can 2009 be the last of his prime/peak? I don't understand the logic.

[ShaqAttack3234]

When you say "peak", what are you referring to? Stats? Overall athleticism?

I say this because the general consensus is that he is a player with a few flaws. Shaky post game, shaky mid range game, relied too much on his athleticism, etc. If he comes back a more polished player than he ever has and still is an elite athlete and player, then how can 2009 be the last of his prime/peak? I don't understand the logic.

I meant peak season, he's still in his prime, but I don't see him playing the game better for a season(including the playoffs than he did in 2009). He's a bit more skilled now, but noticeably less explosive.

Not sure how long his prime will last, I've always been skeptical over how his game will age, and last season made me more so.

[I.R.Beast]

Yeah if he would have sealed the deal, that would have been one of the greatest postseason runs I have ever seen. This dude was killing people.

The good thing is that we know he has it in him to finish games. Hopefully he will come back next year with some new moves and be more assertive.

are you serious?....the chicago series was one of poor offensive execution in which both offenses was borderline anemic...James wasn't spectacular in that series...he made a few big shots, but he wasnt overly impressive in any series this post season. The big shots he made doesnt just erase the rest the game he had. This would've have just an okay playoff run had miami he won...james perrcentages and averages were down straight across the board and the heat were beating teams due to freethrow advantages(i.e making history against the bulls). Miami was outshot , from 2, and 3, and out rebounded by chicago and still won the series due to a 2-1 freethrow advantage, i dont find that to be impressive.

[Indian guy]

Kobe's 2001, 2008, 2009 and 2010 playoff runs were great and considerably better than any of Lebron's with the exception of 2009.

How does any run by Kobe match LeBron's in 2010? 29/9/8/FG% .500/TS% .610/PER 29 > is better than Kobe in the years you listed. Don't tell me how LeBron was average in the Boston series. Kobe fared much worse against them a round later.