The Finals really ruined lebron - i mean just before the finals...

[Doranku]

I'm confused as to why people think Kobe's game 7 is any better than Lebron's game 6. The only difference is that Kobe had a lot more help. That is all.

This is a really interesting topic because it proves that a team winning changes what happened.

Last 3 games? You act like Lebron was horrible in game 4. He certainly wasn't great....and he did turn it over a lot, but you have to factor in his circumstances a little. Look at his sorry ass team. Its a joke compared to Kobe's.

Oh, and game 4:

22/9/8 7 of 18 shooting and held paul pierce to 3 of 8 from the field for 9 points (5 turnovers)

And I'm supposed to think that Kobe's game 4 was somehow better than that? Total bullshit. Sorry.

Kobe scored 11 more points on 4 more shots. Shot 46%/55%/88% compared to 39%/0%/73% (LOL) from LeBron. A couple more rebounds and six more assists somehow makes it total bullshit that Kobe's game was better than LeBron's?

Okaaaaaaaaaaay..

[N0Skillz]

DMAVs is a troll......


ignore the fool it will make your life so much easier.

[Sakkreth]

Kobe scored 11 more points on 4 more shots. Shot 46%/55%/88% compared to 39%/0%/73% (LOL) from LeBron. A couple more rebounds and six more assists somehow makes it total bullshit that Kobe's game was better than LeBron's?

Okaaaaaaaaaaay..

Kobe doesn't get that number overall to often

[Doranku]

Yea. He had 2 assists and 7 turnovers and his team crumbled in the 4th. Sorry. Thats not a good game based on the standards people are using in this thread for Lebron. Not at all.

So Kobe's team crumbled in the 4th being outscored by 9, but LeBron's team didn't crumble in the 4th being outscored by 8? Right...

Not to mention that Cavs only scored 15 points in the 4th compared to 27 by the Lakers. It was their defense that crumbled, more specifically their interior defense. Like chazzy mentioned, Big Baby went ham on LA's soft bigs inside. You gonna blame Kobe for that?

[DMAVS41]

Kobe scored 11 more points on 4 more shots. Shot 46%/55%/88% compared to 39%/0%/73% (LOL) from LeBron. A couple more rebounds and six more assists somehow makes it total bullshit that Kobe's game was better than LeBron's?

Okaaaaaaaaaaay..

Does Lebron get any credit for shutting down Pierce? Holding Pierce to 3 of 8 shooting and forcing 5 turnovers?

Does that not matter at all.

It must be nice to pretend that these guys play in a vacuum and pretend like Lebron doesn't have a much tougher hill to climb each game based on his teammates.

And I never said Lebron's game was better. I said its silly to claim Lebron played poorly his last three games and then turn around and say Kobe played well in game 4.

Thats a joke. Sorry.

[DMAVS41]

So Kobe's team crumbled in the 4th being outscored by 9, but LeBron's team didn't crumble in the 4th being outscored by 8? Right...

Not to mention that Cavs only scored 15 points in the 4th compared to 27 by the Lakers. It was their defense that crumbled, more specifically their interior defense. Like chazzy mentioned, Big Baby went ham on LA's soft bigs inside. You gonna blame Kobe for that?

So you want to talk about teammates? Really.

Again, I never said Lebron played a better game 4. I said its a double standard to claim Lebron played poorly and Kobe played well.

And LOL at acting like 6 more assists doesn't matter at all.

But you really want to talk about teammates? Who has guarding Rondo? Did he not go HAM when he went for 29/18/13 against the Cavs??? You really gonna blame Lebron for that? LOL LOL LOL

But somehow Davis going for 18 and 5 is a bigger deal....right?

Kobe stans.....

[Jacks3]

lebron's per is inflated by the lower pace and comp. per measures against the average player, and kobe in 2010 saw d-will/nash/stoudemire/westbrook/durant/ while lebron saw...pierce?

[chazzy]

So, do we basically deem any comparison where one player ended up playing more series' as the superior run? That isn't really being fair to the guy with the inferior team.

Do you think Lebron's 2010 run was better than nearly all of Hakeem's and Bird's?

[Doranku]

How is it a double standard? Kobe shot well from the field, from 3, and from the line and scored 33 points on 22 shots while collecting 6 rebounds. LeBron shot like shit from everywhere. Given LeBron's tendency to sky over teammates for rebounds (see Game 6 of the very same series) and his uncanny 20 second dribble followed by a kick out to a player forcing them to shoot, forgive me if I'm not convinced that the 9 rebounds/8 assists makes LeBron's game "good".

How come you don't talk about the defense that Kobe played on Rondo? Rondo was nowhere NEAR the player that he was against Cleveland when he played LA. Sure, LeBron played great D on Pierce. I'll give him that. But Kobe also played good to great D on Rondo given the night. "Does that not count for anything?"

[DMAVS41]

How is it a double standard? Kobe shot well from the field, from 3, and from the line and scored 33 points on 22 shots while collecting 6 rebounds. LeBron shot like shit from everywhere. Given LeBron's tendency to sky over teammates for rebounds (see Game 6 of the very same series) and his uncanny 20 second dribble followed by a kick out to a player forcing them to shoot, forgive me if I'm not convinced that the 9 rebounds/8 assists makes LeBron's game "good".

How come you don't talk about the defense that Kobe played on Rondo? Rondo was nowhere NEAR the player that he was against Cleveland when he played LA. Sure, LeBron played great D on Pierce. I'll give him that. But Kobe also played good to great D on Rondo given the night. "Does that not count for anything?"

Of course it counts. But Lebron was a better defensive player for sure against the Celtics than Kobe was. Kobe just sagged off rondo and forced him to shoot because he had the luxury of a great front line behind him.

The cavs? not so much.

Oh, and I'd advise you to look at Rondo's orlando series. He was not good at all in that series. Who was shutting him down? Was it Nelson? Reddick? Williams?.....LOL

It was the fact that the Magic had an interior presence that could defend the paint without fouling. That is where the real credit for slowing Rondo down should go.

And, back to the game 4's. So basically you want to discount everything Lebron does. His rebounds don't count, his assists don't count, his defense just isn't that great....etc. Again, thats weak.

That is my problem with people like you. You act like Lebron was stat padding by being the only Cav to work on the boards. The Celtics out rebounded the Cavs by 14 in that game. Lebron had 9 boards. The rest of his sorry team combined for 24 rebounds and let a guard get 18 freaking boards. Yet its Lebron that is stat padding. You want to talk about the difference in a game, Being outrebounded by 14 is always a good place to start. But yea, its stat padding. He stole those rebounds.

[Doranku]

Of course it counts. But Lebron was a better defensive player for sure against the Celtics than Kobe was. Kobe just sagged off rondo and forced him to shoot because he had the luxury of a great front line behind him.

The cavs? not so much.

Oh, and I'd advise you to look at Rondo's orlando series. He was not good at all in that series. Who was shutting him down? Was it Nelson? Reddick? Williams?.....LOL

It was the fact that the Magic had an interior presence that could defend the paint without fouling. That is where the real credit for slowing Rondo down should go.

And, back to the game 4's. So basically you want to discount everything Lebron does. His rebounds don't count, his assists don't count, his defense just isn't that great....etc. Again, thats weak.

That is my problem with people like you. You act like Lebron was stat padding by being the only Cav to work on the boards. The Celtics out rebounded the Cavs by 14 in that game. Lebron had 9 boards. The rest of his sorry team combined for 24 rebounds and let a guard get 18 freaking boards. Yet its Lebron that is stat padding. You want to talk about the difference in a game, Being outrebounded by 14 is always a good place to start. But yea, its stat padding. He stole those rebounds.

I never said they didn't count. Hell, I just conceded that LeBron played great defense against Pierce. What more do you want?

Not saying his rebounds are stat padding because I don't remember every little detail of the game, but let's not exaggerate their importance. LeBron only had one of those rebounds in the 4th quarter of Game 4, and it was with 20 seconds left when the Cavs were down by 8. Moreover, he went 1-5 from the field and only scored 3 points in the 4th quarter. I think it was chazzy who said Kobe, on the other hand, had 12 points on 2-5 shooting in the 4th quarter of game 4?

I'm not saying Kobe's game 4 was light years better than LeBron's, but I do think Kobe had a slightly better game. I guess that makes me a stan.

Funny, though, that you keep stressing these rebounds when you completely neglect Kobe's 15 boards when talking about game 7. All it is to you is, "6-24! 6-24!" For someone who preaches consistency, you aren't very consistent yourself.

[All Net]

Sadly when you play that badly in the finals what you did to get there is all forgotten

[DMAVS41]

I never said they didn't count. Hell, I just conceded that LeBron played great defense against Pierce. What more do you want?

Not saying his rebounds are stat padding because I don't remember every little detail of the game, but let's not exaggerate their importance. LeBron only had one of those rebounds in the 4th quarter of Game 4, and it was with 20 seconds left when the Cavs for down by 8. Moreover, he went 1-5 from the field and only scored 3 points in the 4th quarter. I think it was chazzy who said Kobe, on the other hand, had 12 points on 2-5 shooting in the 4th quarter of game 4?

I'm not saying Kobe's game 4 was light years better than LeBron's, but I do think Kobe had a slightly better game. I guess that makes me a stan.

Funny, though, that you keep stressing these rebounds when you completely neglect Kobe's 15 boards when talking about game 7. All it is to you is, "6-24! 6-24!" For someone who preaches consistency, you aren't very consistent yourself.

I'm not preaching anything. I'm trying to understand what you are saying. I have no problem with you saying Kobe's game 4 was slightly better. I personally think in terms of overall impact they were pretty even. However, I have no issue with saying one is slightly better than the other.

My issue was with you saying that Lebron played horribly his last three games. And then you turn around and credit Kobe for playing a "good" game 4. That doesn't make sense to me. Especially given the circumstances of each game for the two players and the similar outcome. I don't see how one can be considered "good" and one "poor".....that isn't consistent.

As to the rebounding. I never said Kobe's 15 boards weren't important. I said they don't make a bad game good. And Kobe played a shit game in game 7. I don't know how anyone can dispute that. I've been very clear on that. Its not even about missing shots for me. Its about him taking so many terrible shots and clearly forcing the issue in a do or die game that was on the verge of a blowout. I don't respect that kind of play. Now, if Kobe had taken those shots in the normal flow and they had been good looks? I'd have no problem with it. Again, I've been consistent about that from the beginning and you won't see my trumpeting Lebron's game 6.

However, I'm again confused as to why Lebron is getting hated on for his game 6. Did he play well? Not really. His stats are much better than his play. Did he play poorly? Hell no. He kept his team alive in the 2nd half after Mo, as usual, couldn't get it done when it really matters. Or how Jamison, a career shrinker in big games and moments, came up with a solid 2 of 10 for 5 points while KG roasted him for 22 and 12.

Do I think Lebron played awesome in games 4 and 6. Nope, but he hardly played as bad as you and others are letting on. You act like he just was awful...and thats not the case.

And I'm still confused by the people (not saying you are one of them) that hate on Lebron for game 6 and give Kobe a pass for game 7. How is that fair or consistent.

And furthermore, how is it fair to say Kobe's series was "easily better" when Lebron shot 5% better from the field (scoring only .8 less ppg), got to the ft line more often, rebounded the ball better, created more scoring chances for his teammates, forced more steals, had more blocks, and played better defense. I don't get it. And he lost in 6. To a better team. A team that had Perkins for all 6. And Lebron did that playing with far less help from his teammates and coach than Kobe had.

Saying Kobe was "easily better" is exactly why people laugh at Kobe fans. Its just simply not true by any standard or measure. Only in the hugely biased mind of Kobe stans can a statement like that make sense.

[Jacks3]

kobe averaged 29 PPG/8 RPG/4 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/53% TS in the 2010 finals against the best D in the league. through the first 6 games he was averaging 30 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/56% TS and had many people saying he should win finals mvp even if the lakers lost. why do people keep acting like he had a poor series? overall, he was solid.

[DMAVS41]

kobe averaged 29 PPG/8 RPG/4 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/53% TS in the 2010 finals against the best D in the league. through the first 6 games he was averaging 30 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/56% TS and had many people saying he should win finals mvp even if the lakers lost. why do people keep acting like he had a poor series? overall, he was solid.

I think the real question is how that series is considered "easily better" than:

27/9/7/2/1 54% TS (don't quote me on those numbers....got them from a site) while playing better defense and having to carry a heavier burden.....playing a team at full strength with Perk there every game.

How is Kobe's series "easily better"????