Which players have case for GOAT in the NBA History?

[pauk]

It's difficult to rank players half-way through their careers, especially when using a number of different sources. Remember, these aren't my own rankings, although I suppose my methodology influenced the rankings somewhat (LeBron would be a lot lower if I didn't weight the rankings more towards the most recently published rankings).

I am sure LeBron will retire ranked ahead of Elgin Baylor on the all-time list. For now, I think it's fair to see him ranked 25th. Trust me, there is enough outrage from people at RealGM that he is above the likes of Stockton and Pippen, let alone if I started moving him ahead of all-time legends like Elgin Baylor.

alright... its no secret i like lebron, but im really honestly trying not to be biased here... if you take a look at what lebron has done already, all his achievements, accomplishments, milestones, records, productions, talent-domination and so on..... we are talking about a player here who has been the best player in the NBA, unlike Baylor or Malone or Stockton or Barkley and so on... its more than enough to be comparable with the likes of Barkley, Malone, Baylor and so on.... he has a case for top 20 easily... its almost like lebron is starting to get ridicilously underrated at least in the all-time ranking sense... (hatred might have something to do it or something, i dont know)...

anyways, sry for bringin lebron up again


GOAT: Jordan... and then u can argue about Russell, Wilt and Kareem...

[Vienceslav]

@ elgin baylor being #13 and Lebron #25



Elgin Baylor
1 x All-Star MVP
Rookie of the Year
11 x NBA All-Star
10 x All-NBA 1st team
thats about it........

Stats:
23149 points @ 27 PPG
11463 rebounds @ 13 RPG
3650 assists @ 5 APG

Lebron James
2 x NBA MVP
2 x All-Star MVP
Rookie of the Year
7 x All-Star
5 x All-NBA 1st team
3 x All-Defensive 1st team
17 x POTM (most in NBA history)
1 x Gold Medal

Stats:
17362 points @ 28 PPG
4451 rebounds @ 7 RPG
4364 assists @ 7 APG

There is no way LeBron ends up #25 when it

[jlauber]

[QUOTE=Vienceslav]There is no way LeBron ends up #25 when it

[WillC]

If LeBron got injured and never played again, I agree that he'd still be ranked in the region of 20th best player of all-time (his lack of a championship would keep him from being any higher than that).

But we can't rank him any higher than that UNTIL his career is over (or at least nearly over).

Why?

Well, if you look back at history, there have been some monumentally short-sighted errors in these kind of rankings.

In 1996, Peter Vecsey ranked Penny Hardaway as the 39th best player EVER... ahead of the likes of Dominique Wilkins, Wes Unseld, Nate Thurmond, Patrick Ewing and George Mikan. "I've seen enough already" proclaimed Vecsey.

Meanwhile, in the early 2000s, Elliot Kalb ranked Tracy McGrady as the 41st best player ever ahead of the likes of Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, Robert Parish, etc.

Therefore, it's best to err on the side of caution when ranking active players.

[Vienceslav]

If Lebron were to retire today, he would have a case for top-25 (or higher.) And I suspect that when his career is over, he might be knocking at the door of the all-time top-10.

For someone as talented and gifted as he is ,anything but top 10 is a bit disappointing really.
He will gradually surpass guys like Malone and Barkley and if he wins a few rings he should enter the discussion with the guys currently being voted in the TOP 10 threads.

[DMAVS41]

for me its only mj, russell, and magic

those are my top 3 players ever and my top tier

then i have kareem and wilt in a tier

then shaq/duncan/bird in a tier

then hakeem/kobe/oscar/west in a tier

i didn't see wilt, so i'm just going off opinions and data. i did see kareem. he could definitely be in the top tier, but i honestly just thought magic was better.

[pauk]

If LeBron got injured and never played again, I agree that he'd still be ranked in the region of 20th best player of all-time (his lack of a championship would keep him from being any higher than that).

But we can't rank him any higher than that UNTIL his career is over (or at least nearly over).

Why?

Well, if you look back at history, there have been some monumentally short-sighted errors in these kind of rankings.

In 1996, Peter Vecsey ranked Penny Hardaway as the 39th best player EVER... ahead of the likes of Dominique Wilkins, Wes Unseld, Nate Thurmond, Patrick Ewing and George Mikan. "I've seen enough already" proclaimed Vecsey.

Meanwhile, in the early 2000s, Elliot Kalb ranked Tracy McGrady as the 41st best player ever ahead of the likes of Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, Robert Parish, etc.

Therefore, it's best to err on the side of caution when ranking active players.

Ok, but this is different.... Penny didnt achieve a god damn thing to be above Dominique, Wes Unseld and so on.... you dont see any logic/sense with that....

but Lebron? we are talking about a player who unlike Penny was the best player in the NBA, the most productive-talented-dominant player in the NBA... Barkley, Malone, Baylor, Barry and so on, players who are over him were never the best players in the NBA, Jordan/Wilt was best in their era... and that is the magnitude of player Lebron is and will continue to be...

when you think about that and most importantly at what he has accomplished, after you take a look at what he has already achieved down here, you can see the logic/sense to why nobody should be angry to see him higher than #25 already...





LEBRON JAMES NBA CAREER

2 x MVP
2 x All-Star MVP
Rookie of the Year
7 x NBA All-Star
1 x NBA scoring champion
5 x All-NBA 1st team
3 x All-Defensive 1st team
All-Rookie 1st team
1 x Gold Medal
17 x Player of the Month trophies (most in NBA history)
2 x Best NBA Player awards


STATS:

17362 points @ 27.7 PPG (#3 all time)
4451 rebounds @ 7.1 RPG
4364 assists @ 7.0 APG
1079 steals @ 1.7 SPG
532 blocks @ 0.8 BPG
40 total triple doubles

PER - 26.9 (#2 all-time and #3 in Playoffs, after Michael Jordan)


NBA achievements

One of eight players in NBA history to score 2,000 points seven consecutive seasons..[1] Includes Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, Alex English, Karl Malone, Oscar Robertson, Dominique Wilkins.

One of four players in NBA history to average at least 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists in their rookie season.[1] Includes Oscar Robertson, Michael Jordan, Tyreke Evans.

One of five players in NBA history to average over 25 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists in a season (achieved this four times).[1] Includes Oscar Robertson (achieved this six times), John Havlicek (achieved this twice), Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan.

One of three players in NBA history to average at least 30 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists in a season.[1] Includes Oscar Robertson (achieved this five times) and Michael Jordan.

One of four player in NBA history to average at least 31 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists in a season.[1] Includes Oscar Robertson (achieved this twice), Jerry West, and Michael Jordan.

One of two players in NBA history to average at least 27 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists for six consecutive seasons.[1] Behind Oscar Robertson, who achieved this eight consecutive times.

One of two players in NBA history to post at least 2000 points, 500 rebounds and 500 assists in a season for at least six seasons.[1] Behind Oscar Robertson, who achieved this six times in his career.

One of four players in NBA history to average at least 25 points, 5 rebounds and 5 assists for their career.[1] Includes Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Michael Jordan.

Only player in NBA history to average at least 26 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists for their career.[1]
Only player in NBA history to post at least 2000 points, 500 rebounds, 500 assists and 100 steals in four straight seasons.[1]
One of three players in NBA history to average at least 30 points, 10 rebounds and 7 assists in a postseason series.[2] Includes Oscar Robertson and Larry Bird.

One of three players in NBA history to record a triple-double in their playoff debut.[1] Includes Johnny McCarthy and Magic Johnson.

One of two players in NBA history to win the NBA Player of the Month Award four times for two consecutive seasons.[3] Tied with Kevin Garnett, who achieved the same in the 2003-04 NBA Season.

One of four players in NBA history to lead their team in all five major statistical categories (total points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals) in a season (2008–09 season).[4] Includes Dave Cowens (1977–78), Scottie Pippen (1994–95) and Kevin Garnett (2002–03).

1st player in NBA History to receive 2.5 million NBA All-Star votes on 3 separate occasions.
1st player in NBA History to score at least 40 points in the first road playoff game with 41 points at the Washington Wizards on April 28, 2006.
1st player in NBA History to lead the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks for two consecutive seasons (2008–2009, 2009–2010).
1st forward in NBA history to average more than 8.0 assists per game (2009–2010).
2nd place all-time for consecutive 20-point games to start a playoff career with 19.[5] Behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's 27 consecutive games

Most consecutive points scored for a team in a playoff game with 25 straight points at the Detroit Pistons on May 31, 2007.[6]


Youngest player records

James owns numerous NBA "youngest player" records. He is the youngest to:

To be selected #1 overall draft pick (18 years of age).[1]
To be named NBA Rookie of the Year (19 years of age).[1]
To record a triple-double (20 years, 20 days).[1] Recorded 27 points, 11 rebounds, and 10 assists on January 19, 2005 vs. Portland Trail Blazers.
To record a triple-double in the playoffs. (21 years, 113 days).[1] Recorded 32 points, 11 rebounds, and 11 assists on April 22, 2006 vs. Washington Wizards.
To score 30 points in a game (18 years, 334 days).[1] Recorded 33 points on November 29, 2003 vs. Memphis Grizzlies
To score 40 points in a game (19 years, 88 days).[1] Recorded 41 points on March 27, 2004 vs. New Jersey Nets.
To score 2,000 points in a season (2004–05).[1]
To average at least 30 points per game in the NBA.
To be awarded All-NBA honors (2004–05).[1]
To be named to the All-NBA first team (21 years, 138 days).[1]
To win an All-Star Game MVP (21 years, 55 days).[1]
To lead the league in All-Star voting (22 years, 26 days).[1]
To lead the team in PPG (19 years of age).[1]
To score 2,000 points in seven consecutive seasons (26 years of age).[1]
To reach:[1]
Every thousand point milestone from 1,000 points through 17,000 points

[DMAVS41]

For someone as talented and gifted as he is ,anything but top 10 is a bit disappointing really.
He will gradually surpass guys like Malone and Barkley and if he wins a few rings he should enter the discussion with the guys currently being voted in the TOP 10 threads.

barring injury, the absolute worst lebron can wind up at is 12 to 15.....and honestly 15 might be low the way people rank here.

oscar, west, baylor, moses, barkley, dirk, malone, kg, pettit.....all of those guys really won't have much of an argument over lebron if lebron plays 15 years and doesn't drop off dramatically or something.

the way people rank here, lebron will probably be at worst the 12th best player ever.

[catch24]

for me its only mj, russell, and magic

those are my top 3 players ever and my top tier

then i have kareem and wilt in a tier

then shaq/duncan/bird in a tier

then hakeem/kobe/oscar/west in a tier

i didn't see wilt, so i'm just going off opinions and data. i did see kareem. he could definitely be in the top tier, but i honestly just thought magic was better.

I agree with most of this.

But, how is Magic two tiers above Bird when they were practically 1A/B in the 80's?

[WillC]

I actually think LeBron will retire as one of the top 5 players ever (i.e. ahead of Magic, Bird, Shaq and Duncan but below Jordan - right next to Wilt, Russell and Kareem).

However, he's only half-way through his career. He needs to keep up his current level of dominance (and add a few rings) before he reaches the top 5.

I have confidence that it'll happen eventually though. Fans need to be patient.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe
Magic
Jordan...


_________________________________________

at people saying Russell ,Wilt , Kareem......when they never watched them play


elitists fans =





next

[D-Wade316]

Kobe
Magic
Jordan...


_________________________________________

at people saying Russell ,Wilt , Kareem......when they never watched them play


elitists fans =





next

[WillC]

Kobe
Magic
Jordan...


_________________________________________

at people saying Russell ,Wilt , Kareem......when they never watched them play


elitists fans =





next

Joker!

[DMAVS41]

I agree with most of this.

But, how is Magic two tiers above Bird when they were practically 1A/B in the 80's?

well, its hard.....simply because i think all the players between magic and bird were better than bird.

wilt, kareem, shaq, duncan....i'd take them all over bird. i wouldn't take any of them over magic.

certainly not a big gap, but i just thought magic was the better player.

[WillC]

well, its hard.....simply because i think all the players between magic and bird were better than bird.

wilt, kareem, shaq, duncan....i'd take them all over bird. i wouldn't take any of them over magic.

certainly not a big gap, but i just thought magic was the better player.

Seems extremely odd that you'd take those players over Bird... but not over Magic.

Bird and Magic were virtually inseparable.