How good was Wilt Chamberlain defensively?

[ThaRegul8r]

Also:

Just because you don't know something or never heard something, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Very few people now know anything about that time period anyway, and certain not modern-day fans.

I was trying to be objective but if I came off as otherwise than my bad. I assumed for you, what your accusing me of being... You know what they say about assuming

I am likely younger than you - but I am not necessarily a typical "modern day fan"... I have something like 25-30 hours of 1950's/60's/early 70's NBA games/footage stored on my HDD, and I watch all of it - and constantly look for more. I read, bookmark, and organize countless old newspaper articles for stats and an idea of perspective, and I just like researching anything/everything from the media black-hole of pre-1980's. No, I certainly won't know everything and I'll probably stand to be corrected again - but I'm also not oblivious to basketball before Magic and Bird

The second sentence wasn't directed at you but rather a commentary about the modern state of affairs. Obviously you're making an effort to learn, which is more than most people do. "Very few people now know anything about that time period anyway," includes sportswriters who are paid to write and talk about sports, but don't have any historical knowledge about the game. For instance, the Kevin Love thing, where everyone was acting like Love was setting some NBA record with his double-double streak. You had paid sports people who didn't know that Love wasn't anywhere near an NBA record, yet they had people thinking they were privy to NBA history. I remember in the early 80s, George Johnson had a double-digit block game, and a sports writer said that even the legendary Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain never had a 10 or more blocks in a game before, which was utterly absurd, since they had multiple double-figure block games.

Your attitude is certainly commendable, and it's a shame that more people don't have that mindset.

[jlauber]

As far as shot blocking goes, I believe Harvey Pollack has Wilt as the game's greatest volume shot-blocker.

But, I also found this interesting. Pslieas posted some research a while back, in which Chamberlain blocked about 7-8 bpg in his '72 season (in the known games, which were around 60 I believe.) And, in something like the known 50 games of Wilt's LAST season, in '73, Wilt was around 6 bpg.

Why is that interesting? Because Nate Thurmond and even Kareem were regarded asa outstanding shot blockers. YET, in the very next season, (and after Wiilt had retired), and when the NBA began to officially record blocked shots, Kareem averaged 3.5 bpg, and Thurmond was at 2.9 bpg.

[ThaRegul8r]

As far as shot blocking goes, I believe Harvey Pollack has Wilt as the game's greatest volume shot-blocker.

But, I also found this interesting. Pslieas posted some research a while back, in which Chamberlain blocked about 7-8 bpg in his '72 season (in the known games, which were around 60 I believe.) And, in something like the known 50 games of Wilt's LAST season, in '73, Wilt was around 6 bpg.

Why is that interesting? Because Nate Thurmond and even Kareem were regarded asa outstanding shot blockers. YET, in the very next season, (and after Wiilt had retired), and when the NBA began to officially record blocked shots, Kareem averaged 3.5 bpg, and Thurmond was at 2.9 bpg.

Kareem was never in the class of Chamberlain or Russell as a shot blocker.

[jlauber]

Kareem was never in the class of Chamberlain or Russell as a shot blocker.

Agreed, but he did lead the league in four seasons. And, he anchored some great defensive teams in the early 70's.

[ThaRegul8r]

I won't argue with those that claim that Russell was the greatest defensive player of all-time. But, Wilt REDUCED opposing centers to Way below their normal shooting percentages in their known games, series, or even seasons. Many in the 10% range.

As a result of their stylistic differences defensively, since Chamberlain was bigger and stronger, he stayed near the basket and so got his blocks on people who drove to the basket and on his man, while since Russell was quicker and more agile, he got his blocks all over the court, including out of nowhere and on the chase down blocks that LeBron James is renowned for nowadays.

[ThaRegul8r]

Kareem was never in the class of Chamberlain or Russell as a shot blocker.

Agreed, but he did lead the league in four seasons. And, he anchored some great defensive teams in the early 70's.

I'm aware of that. I was the first person to post Milwaukee's opposing field-goal percentages on the internet, and I believe I did so on this very site. He still wasn't in their class.

[jlauber]

As a result of their stylistic differences defensively, since Chamberlain was bigger and stronger, he stayed near the basket and so got his blocks on people who drove to the basket and on his man, while since Russell was quicker and more agile, he got his blocks all over the court, including out of nowhere and on the chase down blocks that LeBron James is renowned for nowadays.

Agreed.

[jlauber]

I'm aware of that. I was the first person to post Milwaukee's opposing field-goal percentages on the internet, and I believe I did so on this very site. He still wasn't in their class.

Agreed again. Those Buck teams were not only holding teams to around .425 shooting, they were shooting nearly .500 themselves. Their '71 season differential of .085 is the largest that I could fine (.509 to .424.)

[mosesmalone]

yes,top5..
Protect rebound,great blocker.

[Pointguard]

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]

[jlauber]

Funny, I've made a very similar observation with KG and Tim Duncan in the way they play defense. KG plays with his feet and his defense kept people like Kobe out of the lane. Tim Duncan played better defense at the rim but has whole videos of him being dunked on by various players. KG also communicates as good as anybody on defense ever did, so that his team could literally flank and keep people out of the paint. KG, never gets called the smartest player in the game. Yet he makes more quick decisions and correct decisions than anybody in the game when he was in his prime. And people who sit here and champion Russell, not you Regul8r, would say both Barkley and Dirk were better powerforwards than KG.

The all-time PF position rankings are very close among the "greats." Duncan has the career accolades, but after him, players like KG, Pettit, Dirk, K. Malone, and Barkley are all bunched together IMHO. I could go with any of them, in any order. But you're right, KG was the most versatile of all of them, and the best defender.

[Pointguard]

The all-time PF position rankings are very close among the "greats." Duncan has the career accolades, but after him, players like KG, Pettit, Dirk, K. Malone, and Barkley are all bunched together IMHO. I could go with any of them, in any order. But you're right, KG was the most versatile of all of them, and the best defender.

I have Duncan above KG, primarily because Duncan has a very definite relationship with winning. I just brought up this fact because more tools were needed (for the average fan) to understand KG and the way he was playing defense. The next generation will find out that communication on defense is the next level of effective defense. Whenever you meet any resistance in life, in general, communication is the best way to organize for it or around it. If people are not going to understand KG, its going to be impossible to imagine Russell who was ahead of his time, back then. Like Russell, KG could make the right defensive commitment on a moments look.

[D-Wade316]

List of some of the best defensive centers:
Russell
Wilt
Eaton
Olajuwon
Robinson
Wallace

Russell is the GOAT defender, so it is implied that he is also the GOAT defensive center. No dynasty has come close to Boston's sustained dominance. They won mostly out of their defense. The teams Russell led were average or below average offensive teams compared to league average.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6205
1963 Celtics - 3rd best defensive team of all-time
1965 Celtics - 5th
1962 Celtics - 6th
1964 Celtics - 13th
And those teams coincided with Russell's prime.

I guess you could safely place Chamberlain at 2-5.
1. Russell
2-4. Chamberlain, Hakeem, Olajuwon, Wallace

[CavaliersFTW]

List of some of the best defensive centers:
Russell
Wilt
Eaton
Olajuwon
Robinson
Wallace

Russell is the GOAT defender, so it is implied that he is also the GOAT defensive center. No dynasty has come close to Boston's sustained dominance. They won mostly out of their defense. The teams Russell led were average or below average offensive teams compared to league average.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6205
1963 Celtics - 3rd best defensive team of all-time
1965 Celtics - 5th
1962 Celtics - 6th
1964 Celtics - 13th
And those teams coincided with Russell's prime.

I guess you could safely place Chamberlain at 2-5.
1. Russell
2-4. Chamberlain, Hakeem, Olajuwon, Wallace

Agreed but...

what about THURMOND!!!

He may not have outright blocked the skyhook but the guy guarded the young version of prime KAJ "better than anyone" Kareem says ever faced (And it shows in their h2h statistics).

Top 3 defensive bigs of the 1960's -

Bill
Wilt
Thurmond

[D-Wade316]

Agreed but...

what about THURMOND!!!

He may not have outright blocked the skyhook but the guy guarded the young version of prime KAJ "better than anyone" Kareem says ever faced (And it shows in their h2h statistics).

Top 3 defensive bigs of the 1960's -

Bill
Wilt
Thurmond

Agreed with the bolded.

Thurmond is one of the best low-post defenders. He, IMHO, would be like Mutombo. Capable of guarding the best low post scorers, but not someone who can anchor a great defense like Russell, Chamberlain, etc. That's just me though.