VIDEO: 1964-65 Los Angeles Lakers - (Narrated by coach Fred Schauss)

[CavaliersFTW]

VIDEO: 1964-65 Los Angeles Lakers insights.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVi0EtJcZg


Lakers Coach Fred Schaus Narrates, and he covers:

*The Lakers roster

*The Lakers competition

*League-wide stars and rookies

*Defensive strategies

*Offensive strategies

Fred Schaus has a painfully boring voice but as a coach, he offers insight to vintage professional NBA basketball from the eyes of somebody who understands the game well. The footage is great - many of these guys look very skilled no? Let me know what you guys think.


Stand-out things I noted:

*Jimmy King and Walt Hazzard - the two Lakers point guards look very skilled and solid even by modern standards and this was really interesting based on some of the criticisms that era's guards receive (even from me). They displayed an excellent variety of shots, moves, and had great ball handling.

*Not that this has anything to do why I think he looked solid but Jimmy King suddenly dunks in this footage and he's 6'2 and white

*Jerry West... That's gotta be the wettest jumper I've seen outside of Larry Bird and Ray Allen.

*Leroy Ellis - holy shit... not famous... not a star... how!? (I can only guess bc Wilt/Russell/Bellamy/Reed of the era)

*Bill Russell - with no regard for human life

*Lucious Jackson - with no regard for human life

*Richie Guerrin (and maybe Jack Twyman?) are the leagues last dinosaur two-hand set shot artists by this time... and c'mon... the shot (looks stupid) and can sometimes have long range accuracy but unless it was wide open that slow, unprotected release should be getting blocked. That's a relict shot of the 50's. Player defense honestly looks solid on all the other shooters, seriously, watch and see. Yet Jimmy King just stands there in front of Richie and lets him sink it. Maybe players just feel bad for the old-school veterans and let them have it, I've really got no better rationale as to why that ugly shot wasn't contested lol.

*Without a 3 point line the game is a lot less spread out. Not that that's a bad thing, the teams look like they are playing with a highly developed fast-break, mid-range, and high-post/low-post games. There just isn't that familiar "spread" that we see today. Their mid-range plays are something that we don't see in today's game and it's interesting to see them - hook shots and mid-range skills actually would still be very effective today but they aren't taught anymore.

*The bigs from this era look incredibly skilled, and incredibly numerous, not to mention very athletic and explosive... No? For a few short years there were regular examples of crazy HOF/star front courts looked like Pettit/Beaty, Thurmond/Chamberlain, Bellamy/Reed, Embry/Russell, Lucious/Chamberlain etc. Very common to have HOF'ers forced together with usually the younger star center conceding to PF. Think about that. Expansions quickly eliminated such density. The last time elite prime/young bigs were paired together like that would be examples like Parish/McHale or Olajuwon/Sampson - and they played in a much larger league with fewer examples of such elite front-courts.

**Keep in mind as he mentions a few guys heights... such as the Lakers "6'7.5" Power Forward Rudy LaRusso, or Jerry Lucas of the Royals that this does not mean that these guys are short or under sized... the height he mentions is misleading when taken out of context. Compared to anyone from any era up until the early 90's, and they aren't undersized in height, weight or strength, and if we're speaking strictly about height those guys aren't short for the 4 spot compared to any era including this one... It only seems that way if you look at list heights of modern players - The reality is that a 6'7.5" Power Forward is only 1/4" shorter than Kevin Love, who gets listed at a very generous 6'10. It's important to note this discrepancy when/if you make comparisons. Enjoy!

[La Frescobaldi]

VIDEO: 1964-65 Los Angeles Lakers insights.

*Jerry West... That's gotta be the wettest jumper I've seen outside of Larry Bird and Ray Allen.

40 years since the Lakers magical '72 Season. After all this time the Logo is still point guard on my All-Time Starting 5. The only guy at his level has been Magic Johnson (who I got as 6th Man since he can play 4 positions)

*Leroy Ellis - holy shit... not famous... not a star... how!? (I can only guess bc Wilt/Russell/Bellamy/Reed of the era)

LeRoy Ellis?!

Eastern Division
Boston Celtics****** 62-18 * SRS 7.36
Cincinnati Royals**** 48-32 * SRS 1.59
Philadelphia 76ers *** 40-40 * SRS 0.35
New York Knicks*****31-49 * SRS -3.40

Western Division
Los Angeles Lakers*** 49-31 * SRS 1.13
St. Louis Hawks***** 45-35 * SRS 2.19
Baltimore Bullets**** 37-43 * SRS -1.67
Detroit Pistons****** 31-49 * SRS -3.18
San Francisco Warriors 17-63 * SRS -5.64

{Not to change the subject, but look how totally stacked the Celtics were. Anybody who thinks any NBA team was going to beat that juggernaut-at-every-position is fruity. That single fact alone was a good reason to have free agency}

Anyhow....
Celtics - Russell
Royals - Embry
Sixers - Red Kerr / Wilt Chamberlain
Knicks - Willis Reed (rookie year)

Lakers - LeRoy Ellis
Hawks - Zelmo Beaty
Bullets - Walt Bellamy
Pistons - Ray Scott / Reggie Harding
Warriors - Wilt Chamberlain / Nate Thurmond

In 64-65 you could maybe go like this:
Russell - probably his best season
Chamberlain (doctors found he had a heart condition that year)
Thurmond - one of the greatest ever to play
Reed - Rookie of the Year
Bells - good scorer not real smart
Embry - short, thick, unmoveable tree stump with a good hook shot
Beaty - the original Z
Ray Scott - solid guy for years and years
Reggie Harding....... if you could keep the gun out of his pocket he did ok.....
LeRoy Ellis
Kerr - last season, his legs were giving out, sat when Wilt went to Sixers

Lakers were futility at the 5.

[Rnbizzle]

What is this game they're playing?

[CavaliersFTW]

What is this game they're playing?

It's a small handful of unspecified regular season games against a variety of teams. Since it is black and white and only filmed from up in the stands the footage was probably taken from the game-films that the LA team would use for performance analysis during the middle of the season. The video is coach Schaus's insight on the NBA teams/players of that season + obviously a more in depth look at his LA Laker team. All the games they are showing are footage of the LA Lakers vs (whichever team/all-star player he showcases).

[CavaliersFTW]

LeRoy Ellis?!

He's long and extremely athletic, has a soft shooting touch for a big man (I've seen him get a hot hand in Celtics/Lakers playoff game footage), and look at that superb body control in the paint - he seems like he has at the very least, a par bball IQ, I've never seen him make stupid plays in game footage like we can see with guys like JaVale every night. So what held him back? Were his performances streaky or something? Or is it just because he's standing in the shadow of other truly elite centers of that time? Leroy Ellis looks like he'd be a very good player in today's NBA, dare I say maybe even an all-star (based on his talent not his stats). He plays more like a natural PF rather than a back-to-basket center, Gene Wiley on that team plays more like the traditional center and indeed I've seen plays where both have floor time at the same time with Ellis at PF. Cavs have rookie Tristan Thompson and Ellis looks like a longer, taller, much faster, more agile, better shooting version of Tristan Thompson... Thompson is only a rookie but I mean really, Ellis looks very talented on film. Yet his stats are relatively low and he was never a star.

[CavaliersFTW]

40 years since the Lakers magical '72 Season. After all this time the Logo is still point guard on my All-Time Starting 5. The only guy at his level has been Magic Johnson (who I got as 6th Man since he can play 4 positions)




LeRoy Ellis?!

Eastern Division
Boston Celtics****** 62-18 * SRS 7.36
Cincinnati Royals**** 48-32 * SRS 1.59
Philadelphia 76ers *** 40-40 * SRS 0.35
New York Knicks*****31-49 * SRS -3.40

Western Division
Los Angeles Lakers*** 49-31 * SRS 1.13
St. Louis Hawks***** 45-35 * SRS 2.19
Baltimore Bullets**** 37-43 * SRS -1.67
Detroit Pistons****** 31-49 * SRS -3.18
San Francisco Warriors 17-63 * SRS -5.64

{Not to change the subject, but look how totally stacked the Celtics were. Anybody who thinks any NBA team was going to beat that juggernaut-at-every-position is fruity. That single fact alone was a good reason to have free agency}

Anyhow....
Celtics - Russell
Royals - Embry
Sixers - Red Kerr / Wilt Chamberlain
Knicks - Willis Reed (rookie year)

Lakers - LeRoy Ellis
Hawks - Zelmo Beaty
Bullets - Walt Bellamy
Pistons - Ray Scott / Reggie Harding
Warriors - Wilt Chamberlain / Nate Thurmond

In 64-65 you could maybe go like this:
Russell - probably his best season
Chamberlain (doctors found he had a heart condition that year)
Thurmond - one of the greatest ever to play
Reed - Rookie of the Year
Bells - good scorer not real smart
Embry - short, thick, unmoveable tree stump with a good hook shot
Beaty - the original Z
Ray Scott - solid guy for years and years
Reggie Harding....... if you could keep the gun out of his pocket he did ok.....
LeRoy Ellis
Kerr - last season, his legs were giving out, sat when Wilt went to Sixers

Lakers were futility at the 5.

Yes the Celtics are crazy stacked - HOF Hondo as a #6 is part of their bench.

You can another good look at them and many of these other players in the 1963-64 footage which I'm sure you've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvMq-eX_pNw

[Helix]

Yes the Celtics are crazy stacked - HOF Hondo as a #6 is part of their bench.

Yea, just try and tell me Red Auerbach wasn't an absolute genius.

[La Frescobaldi]

Yea, just try and tell me Red Auerbach wasn't an absolute genius.

Greatest figure in the history of basketball. Nobody is even close.

[jlip]

This is an awesome video. The Lakers had a pretty deep and big front line with Ellis, Wiley, and Imhoff each at least 6'10". That kind of makes Russell's 17.8ppg 70.2fg% (NBA Finals record) performance against them in the Finals that more impressive.

Jimmy King has some excellent handles and court vision. The wrap around move at 6:14 was nice. Also his dunk at 21:40 was done with ease.

It appears that Walt Hazzard definitely loved to show-boat when it came to passing even throwing a between the leg at 7:08.

Willis Reed as a rookie was very agile and athletic. I'm used to seeing the older slower version.

[CavaliersFTW]

This is an awesome video. The Lakers had a pretty deep and big front line with Ellis, Wiley, and Imhoff each at least 6'10". That kind of makes Russell's 17.8ppg 70.2fg% (NBA Finals record) performance against them in the Finals that more impressive.

Jimmy King has some excellent handles and court vision. The wrap around move at 6:14 was nice. Also his dunk at 21:40 was done with ease.

It appears that Walt Hazzard definitely loved to show-boat when it came to passing even throwing a between the leg at 7:08.

Willis Reed as a rookie was very agile and athletic. I'm used to seeing the older slower version.

6'10 is ~the real-world heights of guys like Ewing and Olajuwon - and taller than guys like Howard, Webber, Okafur or Mourning. So yeah their center rotation has all the size that any proficient center needs. Plus Ellis would occasionally swing to PF with Wiley playing C - with Baylor at SF that's a fairly imposing front court. And Rudy LaRusso is about the size of Kevin Love starting PF so they have adequate size at any position.

Based on the talent shown in this video would I be going out on a limb to suggest that that team -as they stand- would have no trouble at all playing solid basketball in today's league? Based on what I'm seeing with their depth I'm positive that the '65 Lakers would probably murder this seasons Cavaliers in a 7 game series - either a sweep, or 5 games tops. Anyone can adjust to rule tweaks I don't think those guys would have much trouble with rule changes. I really am trying to look at them objectively - they look talented, deep, very well balanced - and they have two very elite superstars. They actually look better than quite a lot of NBA teams today.

[CavaliersFTW]

Bells - good scorer not real smart

Could you elaborate on why you think he's not real smart? I'm not saying your wrong I'm just actually curious. He is frequently spoken of very highly by his peers - the few people that know of him generally acknowledge him as if he is incredibly underrated and never gets his due because of being overshadowed by Russ and Wilt.

I've heard Bellamy speak in interviews from the past 20 years as an older man and IMO he never gave me the impression as somebody who could be described as not real smart. Is the '62 interview during the all-star game footage contributing to this opinion by chance? I've seen that interview and that's the only piece of evidence I've come across that might imply he wasn't smart but after seeing more recent interviews I came to the conclusion that '62 was probably among the first times he was interviewed 1 on 1 in front of a camera... age, the time period, and experience (a young black rookie) probably just made him uneasy and shy which can often make any intelligent person look like an oaf. The Lakers coach on this film mentions he is a great center at all facets of the game, not just scoring - If Schaus's insight is correct, than wouldn't Bellamy need to be fairly bright to develop a well-rounded game? - I really don't know as I haven't seen quite enough footage of his games yet. So again I'm def not saying your wrong your just the first person I've come across that suggests he lacked some intelligence.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/ha...nba/index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qh9Dz2HPmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QigU0LtNfOU&t=30s

Bellamy in recent interviews, I don't know how that would translate to on-court BBall IQ - but simply based on how he is articulate, insightful and at times witty, Bellamy's IQ seems at the very least at or above that of the average person. He attended Indiana University for 4 years - though I cannot confirm whether or not he earned a degree

This is his interview in 1962 - just seems like he's uncomfortable being on camera at that time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRFjFnXNNB8&t=11m35s

[Helix]

Could you elaborate on why you think he's not real smart? I'm not saying your wrong I'm just actually curious. He is frequently spoken of very highly by his peers - the few people that know of him generally acknowledge him as if he is incredibly underrated and never gets his due because of being overshadowed by Russ and Wilt.

No doubt he is underrated. Plus he never gets the kind of respect that Reed, Thurmond, and Unseld, three of his peers from the 60's, get. Potentially, I think he could have been better than those three, but he never seemed to have the "fire" they had. And it seems that as his career progressed he suffered from a lessening of motivation. Not drastic, but enough to have kept him from being as good as he could have been. I've also read that he suffered from an inability to pass up a good meal, and therefore suffered from weight problems, especially during the second half of his career. I don't know how true that is, but I HAVE read it. Bellamy was one of my favorite players from back then. I used to listen occasionally to Hawks game on the radio back then and I always got a kick out of when Walt scored, they'd ring the bell.....ding ding, ding ding. Like you I've never seen anything to indicate Bellamy was "not real smart". Maybe Fresco knows something we don't, which, at least in my case, is certainly possible.

As for Leroy Ellis.....he certainly shows a lot of talent and athleticism in the clips I've seen. He seemed to have had an awful lot of potential which was never realized.....just look at his career numbers. Why he never reached that supposed potential, I don't know. To guess.....lack of work ethic, focus, aggressiveness.....drugs maybe?

[SuperPippen]

I'm always extremely impressed by what I see from Jerry West in these videos. He looks like a prototypical shooting guard; he's got a wet jumper, he's great at attacking the rim, great at drawing fouls, he's quick, etc.


There's no way he wouldn't be a top guard in the league if he played today.

[La Frescobaldi]

Could you elaborate on why you think he's not real smart? I'm not saying your wrong I'm just actually curious. He is frequently spoken of very highly by his peers - the few people that know of him generally acknowledge him as if he is incredibly underrated and never gets his due because of being overshadowed by Russ and Wilt.

I've heard Bellamy speak in interviews from the past 20 years as an older man and IMO he never gave me the impression as somebody who could be described as not real smart. Is the '62 interview during the all-star game footage contributing to this opinion by chance? I've seen that interview and that's the only piece of evidence I've come across that might imply he wasn't smart but after seeing more recent interviews I came to the conclusion that '62 was probably among the first times he was interviewed 1 on 1 in front of a camera... age, the time period, and experience (a young black rookie) probably just made him uneasy and shy which can often make any intelligent person look like an oaf. The Lakers coach on this film mentions he is a great center at all facets of the game, not just scoring - If Schaus's insight is correct, than wouldn't Bellamy need to be fairly bright to develop a well-rounded game? - I really don't know as I haven't seen quite enough footage of his games yet. So again I'm def not saying your wrong your just the first person I've come across that suggests he lacked some intelligence.

I don't mean dumb as in a box of rocks. The man was always well spoken, articulate..... I mean sometimes it was low basketball quotient.

He played with Willis Reed on the Knicks. Dude could never figure out if he was a forward or a center. It wasn't the coach. Reed would be yelling out Bellamy's assignment for him because he didn't know what it was. He never did figure it out. Naturally the other teams swarmed over his position..... because he was never in it. And he had like 5 or 6 years in the league, while Willis was a rookie. I mean it was almost like Keystone Kops at times, he would run right into Willis. One of my friends said he saw the guy guarding Cazzie Russell (another Knick) instead of playing......... offense. Those kinds of things.

So then he went to the Pistons..... same deal, he wasn't learning their offense, always out of position. To me he mailed it in sometimes. He was on like 5 teams in 5 years.

Chamberlain just toyed with him and so did Russell. His defense was not always what you would want to see.

On the other hand he could really get on a roll and when he did watch out. He had a real skill with single dribble moves. And when he got over to Atlanta that's when to me he got his HoF credentials, his game got stronger....... but I think his will got weaker.

I'm prolly thinking of that disaster of the Knicks and being unfair to Bells. But that's some of the stuff I remember.

Not like Javale McGee, who is the dust at the bottom of the box, but lots of avoidable mistakes.