If people are really born gay..

[bmulls]

Nothing to see here. Jdiaby thinks gay dudes having gay sex is really icky and he's performing extraordinary mental gymnastics trying to justify his bigotry. Unfortunately, like a huge % of the population, he's too stupid to realize it.

[Hoodlum Science]

Do you have an example? I don't even know how you came up with this idea that there is a person that is constantly going back and forth over many years being gay and straight? If that person exists then they might be bi, they might have some social factor influencing their choice (such as community, family, or religion), they might simply be choosing to override their natural proclivity because they can.

I don't have a problem with the idea that sexuality lies on a continuum but unless you are in the middle bit where you are attracted to both males and females OR you have other pressures then I don't think anyone is going back and forth between straight and gay.

Do I have a personal example? No, but realistically, does that matter? Clearly, we can't deny this individual doesn't exist. This person does exist, and has many times over. What I'm saying is there are many people in this world who are confused about their sexuality ... and I strongly believe this isn't because they're born 100% bi-sexual - meaning they like men 50% and women 50% equally. IMO, it'd be more like they like men 16% and women 84%.

I think 100% of men are born with an overwhelming percentage being naturally attracted to men, but also that 100% of men are born with something as low as 000001% (just a random number), meaning men are by default born attract to women primarily, but that some men are born more naturally attracted to other men, but that there's a cap, and there's nothing like a man being born 95% attracted to other men 5% to men; if anything the other way around.

... and again, one's social environment, being the flagship factor in how one arrives at being homosexual. I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner. It's not meant to be that way. If you're gay, OK you're gay, you were perhaps born more gay than the next man, and perhaps there were circumstances that happens to you that didn't happen to others, and maybe that "pushed" you into being your specific sexual orientation. Maybe nothing happened.

[bmulls]

I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say ... but I can't say I agree with it. At conception, a random roll of the dice determines body type A) and brain type B)? I'm sure you didn't mean to paint such a simplistic picture, but that's what I get from it. I think it's much more complicated than that.

Let's say it's genetics. Purely genetics. Dad busts into mom. What's to say if sperm A) is 50% more prone to be homosexual than sperm B)? Then how about sperm C) 33.72% likelihood said child is "born" homosexual. That's why I don't see genetics being as big a part of the equation as commonly thought. I think it's much more complicated, and there's a "cap" on just how "born gay" one can be, and the pushing, main driving factor in one's ultimate arrival at being a homosexual is primarily dictated by their (youthful) social environment.

I think some individuals are born more gay than others, and they have a much higher likelihood of ultimately being gay. I also believe these same individuals could turn out straight, and not gay. This is why I don't see genetics being an end-all be-all end result of one's sexual preference. I think genetically some are more prone to being homosexual than others (like depression, or any other disorder), but combined with social environment, solidifies where they land.

Having said that, people who claim to be gay later on in life change to being straight. Then they go back to being gay. Some switch only once; some switch multiple times. This tells me it's not entirely genetics, and much more a choice in their personal lives. I'm not saying one choice is right and one choice is wrong, I'm just saying these circumstances with these individuals tell me social environment plays a much more vital role in their sexual preference than the grade of gasoline dad pumped into mom's tank.

I might be talking out of my ass here, but I think when they talk about being born gay they aren't necessarily talking about chromosomal genetics.

At certain points in a baby's development the brain is exposed to testosterone and other hormones that shape it into a male or female brain. When this process malfunctions a baby girl's brain might get too much testosterone and a baby boy might get too little. Therefore they have definite structural differences in their brains vs. straight people, but it's not a result of genetics.

I'm sure this is ridiculously simplified and there are a lot more hormones and processes involved but I believe that's the gist of it.

[MavsSuperFan]

Why are some of you guys so threatened by the idea that other men could enjoy gay sex? None of what they do has any impact on your life at all.

[Hoodlum Science]

I might be talking out of my ass here, but I think when they talk about being born gay they aren't necessarily talking about chromosomal genetics.

At certain points in a baby's development the brain is exposed to testosterone and other hormones that shape it into a male or female brain. When this process malfunctions a baby girl's brain might get too much testosterone and a baby boy might get too little. Therefore they have definite structural differences in their brains vs. straight people, but it's not a result of genetics.

I'm sure this is ridiculously simplified and there are a lot more hormones and processes involved but I believe that's the gist of it.

OK, so you basically agree you can't be born 100% gay or 100% straight?

[Nanners]

Why are some of you guys so threatened by the idea that other men could enjoy gay sex? None of what they do has any impact on your life at all.

gay sex is so gross

imagine two women playing with each others tittyballs

[Nanners]

and there is gay gene that makes people gay. Wouldn't be in this best interest to society to isolate the gay gene and make homosexuality obsolete as its counterproductive to the evolution and progression of our species?

funny you would say that

if a gay gene existed it would naturally erase itself

a gay gene would be constantly declining in frequency relative to the straight gene. the main reason any gene would increase in frequency is because it gives an organism some kind of reproductive advantage, obviously gay people dont have any reproductive advantages over straight people.

[AintNoSunshine]

By the same logic we should isolate the people with the same low iq as yourself and kill you all

[miller-time]

Oral sex is just that "Oral Sex" its not the intended way for sexual gratification, get this for"BOTH PARTNERS", i think most recognize that, why don't you address my other points?

[COLOR="Black"]A[/COLOR]nal sex works for both partners. I'll get to your other points when you can at least tell me why a[COLOR="Black"]n[/COLOR]al sex is somehow unacceptable when any other form of non-va[COLOR="Black"]g[/COLOR]inall intercourse is fine?

[bmulls]

OK, so you basically agree you can't be born 100% gay or 100% straight?

I agree with that, but I also think brain chemistry and sexual attraction is a whole lot more complicated than just some X% gay and some Y% straight.

[miller-time]

I agree with that, but I also think brain chemistry and sexual attraction is a whole lot more complicated than just some X% gay and some Y% straight.

Can you explain what he is trying to say? I can't even follow it lol. It mostly just sounds like conjecture.

[bmulls]

Why are some of you guys so threatened by the idea that other men could enjoy gay sex? None of what they do has any impact on your life at all.

This is what I ask people when discussing gay marriage. I'm pretty conservative and so are most of the people I hang out with, so naturally they are against gay marriage and I just can't wrap my head around it.

You could legalize gay marriage tomorrow and I wouldn't know about it for months or years unless someone told me it happened. Gay people getting married or having sex does not affect my life in any way, shape or form. I can't pretend to understand or sympathize with homosexuality, but I understand these people are being made to suffer for no reason and that is just straight up wrong.

[bmulls]

Can you explain what he is trying to say? I can't even follow it lol. It mostly just sounds like conjecture.

I think his main point is nurture, rather than nature, is the primary factor in determining homosexuality.

We all fall somewhere on the sexual attraction continuum, having X% preference for men and Y% preference for women. He believes all men are born with the majority of their sexual attraction toward women, and that a certain guy with 10X/90Y split could turn out gay if he's exposed to certain factors as a kid while another guy with a 15X/85Y split might turn out straight.

[Hoodlum Science]

I think his main point is nurture, rather than nature, is the primary factor in determining homosexuality.

We all fall somewhere on the sexual attraction continuum, having X% preference for men and Y% preference for women. He believes all men are born with the majority of their sexual attraction toward women, and that a certain guy with 10X/90Y split could turn out gay if he's exposed to certain factors as a kid while another guy with a 15X/85Y split might turn out straight.

Spot-on.

[Nanners]

This is what I ask people when discussing gay marriage. I'm pretty conservative and so are most of the people I hang out with, so naturally they are against gay marriage and I just can't wrap my head around it.

You could legalize gay marriage tomorrow and I wouldn't know about it for months or years unless someone told me it happened. Gay people getting married or having sex does not affect my life in any way, shape or form. I can't pretend to understand or sympathize with homosexuality, but I understand these people are being made to suffer for no reason and that is just straight up wrong.

amen. it amazes and confuses me that so many of the religious conservatives surrounding me in the midwest perform the mental gymnastics required in order to support laws against gay marriage.

people that call themselves christians have been seen protesting a lot of things, but has anybody ever witnessed a christian protesting against divorce lawyers? if anybody has actually read a bible, divorce is a lot worse than homosexuality. to hear these people say things like gay people threaten the sanctity of marriage while ~50% of marriages result in divorce is mind bogglingly hypocritical. when was the last time a church turned down a wedding because one of the parties involved was previously divorced?

also, i thought conservatives wanted the government to get the hell out of their lives. allowing uncle sam to deny the rights of two consenting adults or tell them that they are not allowed to love each other is the opposite of small government.