Kobe Bryant 42pts in Elimination Game Against OKC

[RRR3]

Yeah cuz coming on an NBA forum with all your boyfriends, OBSESSING over another guy seems like the sort of thing to talk about an an NBA forum....right? GTFOH!!!!

[LakersReign]

There it go. The truth really does hurt....doesn't it?

[RRR3]

There it go. The truth really does hurt....doesn't it?

[PickernRoller]

I already posted them. Here are the facts:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/...es-since-1991/

What do they show? That Kobe has not performed very well compared to his contemporaries in elimination games.

A quote from the article:

Most players perform similarly by Game Score to all of their playoff performances in the studied time periods, with the notable exceptions of David Robinson, Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki. Kobe’s elimination game struggles have been discussed before, but on the flip side, Dirk looks like a basketball Hercules. Even with a few of horrible performances, most infamously his 8 point exit game against Golden State, Nowitzki still destroys the field in True Shooting% (TS%) while averaging just under 29 a contest. He maintains his historically good turnover rates and he’s scored 30 or more in 13 of his 20 elimination games.

In addition to a noticeable drop off in his individual play, Kobe's teams have been blown out repeatedly in these situations. Last year against the Mavs and this year against the Thunder being the two most recent examples.

I presented this same information earlier. What do you dispute now you ****ing ignorant moron?

First and foremost no one is debating the facts, like many have said before and what many argued like DeuceB..the facts, which are the stats are not debatable. So you can keep on saying I am debating them to make your responses look good but that is clearly not a fact. The stats are the facts, what is not a fact, is your interpretation of the stats(facts), and or the interpretation of the writer from whom you forged your opinion in the first place. So, so far, we gotten two things apart, stats are facts, and, opinions and interpretations are not.

Your whole promise in this borrowed view of yours is that Kobe struggles in elimination games - a given, as in " Kobe gives up" or, "Kobe doesn't perform when facing adversity"

Example:

most of the time he and his teams just lay down - DMAVS

Yet, you even admit, without grasping the relationship:

Well, in 06 and 07 they were just so bad that I don't think it really set in.

when answering to another question…..

It's pretty self explanatory that stats without context mean shit. As such, going as far as that writer went to say that "Kobe struggles in elimination games" - and make it a given, a merit, just by looking at stats and not the context of those stats (how the games played out, his teammates and the opposing team) is simply ignorance at its best. One of the reasons he's writing on a forsaken blog…

Then,

That's what happens when you're part of 3 35+ blowouts

When games were actually close:

'00 WCF, Game 7: 25 pts, 11 reb, 7 ast, 4 blk, 50 eFG% (W)
'02 WCF, Game 6: 31 pts, 11 reb, 5 ast, 50 eG% (W)
'02 WCF, Game 7: 30 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast, 2 stl, 42 eFG% (W)
'07 WCQF, Game 5: 34 pts, 4 reb, 1 ast, 42 eFG% (L)
'10 Finals, Game 6: 26 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 4 stl, 50 eFG% (W)
'10 Finals, Game 7: 23 pts, 15 reb, 2 ast, 25 eFG% (W)
'12 WCSF, Game 5: 42 pts, 5 reb, 0 ast, 2 stl, 56 eFG% (L)

I was talking overall. Never said he didn't play well in a few games. - DMAVS

What I find funny about your response is how you write those stats, those "facts" off as if they really had no weight in the discussion. Yet, Deuce quoted 7 games of the 11 mentioned in your article as the sample size(I assume those games are part of them - I am pretty sure Kobe has been part of more than 11 elimination games). I also find it puzzling that the guy that has faced the most elimination games according to the writer is the one that has performed better, Dirk, with 20 elimination games. Boy why is that? Faced weak teams? focal point of offense? had better all around teams? Opponents?….. Again, stats without context. Plus Like I said, I am pretty sure those sample sizes are not the correct amount of games..…

So, no one will deny that Kobe was part of 3 35+ pts blow out games, but you can't deny he performed as he should in the majority of the elimination games he's been part of. Again, stats without context. You easily quoted 11' as a hallmark year. Yet, you choose to forget that Kobe's knee during that year was f'cked up and he considered retiring if he wasn't able to get the treatment that he got in Germany. Lets forget this was the team that later went to win the championship and cruised through the playoffs beating the Heat. Lets not even mention how bad overall the Lakers as whole played after coming from back-to-back championships (kobetard excuses or context?) Back-to-back championships, a feat, as you realized, not easy to achieve as your boy Dirk got swept in the first round - hard ain't it? I can go on and on about 08' with the Celtics (best Celtics team in decades) and what happened there but again…3 paragraphs just explaining why stats without context are crap.

What I really find must puzzling is how, after praising Kobe in the first page of this thread for his performance you go on to say that, the team, Kobe's team, not Kobe, struggled in the OKC elimination game. So, which of the two? Kobe struggles or his team struggles? The writer says is Kobe as well as his team (not making clear distinction between the two because it will expose his argument by having him explain it) - grasping on the recent and noticeable examples to drive his agenda. Never does he take those stats within the context of those games, all of them. Very easy to gather some stats and make a claim with no explanation whatsoever other than "givens", statements that the writer believes you'll take as truth, fact, without him having to validate them or explain them.

You on the other hand jump all over the place back and forth between the two……to be expected when trying to back up a flawed interpretation. Grasp at anything to win the argument right?

You cite the OKC series as being another example…well hec, if we are going to go with those parameters now, Dirk also struggled yet he clearly did not, individually he did not, and Kobe did not either. The better team simply made clear it was the better team and exploited the other teams weakness which amass for such type of game.

So, to conclude, do not call your opinion and interpretation of facts, of stats a "fact". Opinions and interpretations of stats are not facts. Second, the assertion that Kobe struggles in elimination games is simply not true. When looking at those stats within the context of the games you can see why they are what they are. Within those stats you can pinpoint to games where Kobe did not perform so good, per the standards of what people look for in Kobe (scoring 30+ pts over 45% being the benchmark you could say) and you can also, pin point to games where he performed very well (not necessarily scoring 30+ pts) ...the majority. The comparison of players is even more absurd.

Comparing players in a generalized manner without taking into account context is again, ignorance at its best. What that writer had you believe, or better say fall for is what writers have been doing for decades, using stats, facts to drive their own agenda, opinions and perspectives of what according to them the stats mean. Anyone with a brain knows how facts can be twisted around and given stupid meanings…. I however, do not expect a Kobe hater to grasp the difference because it's simply just another tool to drive an agenda here - the picture that Kobe is a quitter and that Kobe struggles when facing adversity(he doesn't have what it takes). It's all about the Kobetards remember?...

Rest my case.