Vote - #1 Playoff Run of All-Time by a FMVP

[jlauber]

List Magics titles without Kareem.

I'll start with this...Magic won a clinching game six, on the road, as a rookie...WITHOUT Kareem.

Secondly, MAGIC led the '88 Lakers to a title DESPITE Kareem, who was absolutely AWFUL in the post-season, and even WORSE in the Finals. Then, he put up the worst performance, by an all-time great, in a game seven of that series.

And I have maintained that the '87 Lakers were so dominant, that they could have given Kareem's minutes to Thompson and Green, and still won a title.

Furthermore, the Lakers were 11-0 going into the '89 Finals, but had lost Byron Scott and his 20 ppg in the last game of the WCF's. Then, in game two of the Finals, Magic went down. The result...a 4-0 sweeping loss.

And, in Kareem's last year, the Lakers went 57-25. After he retired, Magic with Divac at center took LA to a 63-19 record, which was their second best record of the entire decade.

On top of that, Magic took an injury-riddled Laker team, that was obviously done, to yet another Finals in his last season.


Kareem? He won ONE ring before Magic, and with Oscar guiding the team. BTW, has there ever been an easier road to a title than what Kareem had in his '71 season? His 66-16 Bucks faced a 41-41 Warrior team in the first round. Then, in the WCF's they faced a 48-34 Laker team that was without BOTH West and Baylor (and in a series in which a 34 year old Chamberlain, only a year removed from major knee surgery, battled him to a statistical draw.) Then, they faced a 42-40 Bullets team in the Finals.

In the decade of the 70's, which was the weakest era for champions in NBA history, Kareem took two teams to a Finals, and won ONE ring.

Magic won THREE FMVP IN the Kareem-era, and should have won a fourth in '88. Take Magic out of the equation, and Kareem retires with one ring, and probably around the mid-80's...and his career a HUGE disappointment.

[jlauber]

Wilt couldn't even win with a prime Jerry West who averaged 38 ppg in the '69 Finals and had 42/13/12 in Game 7. So please..

And why? Because the shot-jacking BAYLOR cost the Lakers THREE games, and the LA COACH certainly cost LA the game seven by keeping Chamberlain on the bench in a two point loss(in addition to all the other stupid moves he made.)

BTW, how did West finally get his first ring? He did so while shooting .376 in that post-season, and an even worse .325 in the Finals. Wait...how did LA win that ring, then? Oh, it was CHAMBERLAIN mowing down a PRIME Kareem in the WCF's, and then DOMINATING the Knicks in the Finals...en route to a FMVP.

[jlauber]

Incidently Dunce,

You have Kareem ranked among the all-time greats, yet you constantly harp about how WEAK Wilt's era was. And yet, Kareem played FOUR seasons IN the Wilt-era, BUT, where were his 32 60+ point games (he had ZERO in a 20 year career BTW)? Where were his 103 30-30 games (Wilt had TWO, just in the 71-72 season alone and near the end of his career, while Kareem had ONE in his 20 year career)?

Why couldn't Kareem get 20 rpg IN the Wilt era? He never even approached 20 in his 20 year post-season career, either, and yet, Wilt in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, averaged 22.5 rpg (which was among his WORST post-seasons BTW.)

And how about this...Chamberlain had seasons of .649, .683, and .727 IN the Wilt-era (and Kareem played in TWO of those BTW), yet, what was Kareem's BEST season (.604, and in 1980, when nearly everyone was shooting .500.)

Wouldn't you think that a PRIME Kareem would have FEASTED on all those WEAK centers that played in the Wilt era, and just destroyed Wilt's scoring records? Wait, Kareem's BEST scoring season, was 34.8 ppg...which would have barely beaten Wilt's SIXTH best season mark of 34.7 ppg.

How about the post-season? Give me a list of all of Kareem's 50+ point post-season games? What? What was that again? I can't hear you. Oh, he didn't have ANY. How about Wilt? FOUR, and THREE of them came in "must-win" games, too.

Give me a list of all of the 40-30 games that Kareem had in his post-seasons? Yep, I thought so...ZERO. Wilt? He had FOUR just against Russell (and 55 in his career regular season and post-seasons.)

In any case, and once again for those that missed it earlier...

A PRIME Kareem faced MANY of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain faced...

Where is HIS 100 point game against Imhoff? How about a 66 point game, on 29-35 shooting (and in his 11th season) against Jim Fox? Where is HIS 60 point game against Dierking (again, Wilt accomplished that feat long after he was in his scoring prime...and in fact, just a year before Kareem joined the NBA)?

Where is Kareem's 40.1 ppg average and in NINE H2H games in one season against Reed? Where are the games in which Kareem outscored Reed by 52-23 and 58-28 margins?

Where are the FOUR 60+ point games (with a HIGH game of 73 points, to go along with 36 rebounds) that Wilt pounded 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy with?

And how about Nate Thurmond? A PRIME Kareem faced Thurmond in 43 career H2H starts (and several after Nate was past his prime.) He had SEVEN 30+ point games against Thurmond, with a HIGH game of 34 points.

How about a PRIME "scoring" Wilt against Nate? In 11 STRAIGHT games in the mid-60's (including the first one in his '67 season, when he no longer was shooting nearly as much), Chamberlain had SIX 30+ point games...of 30, 33, 34, 34, 38, and 45 (outscoring Nate by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13.)

Oh, and Kareem faced Thurmond in three straight post-seasons, and shot .486, .428, and a ghastly .405. Chamberlain faced Thurmond in three post-season series, and outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and an astounding .560 to .343.

How come a PRIME Kareem struggled against an OLD Wilt, Thurmond, Gilmore, and was badly outplayed by Moses...and yet,...

A 38-39 year old Kareem, and in TEN STRAIGHT games against Hakeem, AVERAGED 32 ppg on, get this... .630 shooting. And in those TEN STRAIGHT games, Kareem had SIX games of 30+, and THREE of 40+? And in the same week that Kareem was crushing Hakeem with a 46 point game, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes...he outscored Ewing, 40-9, while outshooting Patrick, 15-22 to 3-17?

BTW, a 35 amd 36 year old Gilmore, in TEN STRAIGHT H2H games against Hakeem in those same '84-85 and 85-86 seasons, averaged 23.7 ppg on, get this, .677 shooting (Hakeem was at 18.7 ppg on .493 shooting BTW.)

But, yes, Kareem probably shooting around .430 against Thurmond in his 43 career H2H matchups, and shooting .464 against Wilt in their 28 H2H career H2H's was "weak" competition...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why do you always hijack threads about Wilt?

[Deuce Bigalow]

In the decade of the 70's, which was the weakest era for champions in NBA history, Kareem took two teams to a Finals, and won ONE ring.

Magic won THREE FMVP IN the Kareem-era, and should have won a fourth in '88. Take Magic out of the equation, and Kareem retires with one ring, and probably around the mid-80's...and his career a HUGE disappointment.

Kind of like WIlt. Only won two rings in an era where he was playing against 6'8" average centers, whom nearly all were scrubs.
George Mikan dominated more than Wilt in his weak era. Atleast he won 5 championships.

[Asukal]

OMG! Don't you have any shame jlauber? Stop turning threads into a Wilt **** svcking thread please....

On topic, I was too young to watch the early 80s games so I vote for Hakeem's 94 run. Considering the competition and the stats, Hakeem did really great.

[Deuce Bigalow]

OMG! Don't you have any shame jlauber? Stop turning threads into a Wilt **** svcking thread please....

On topic, I was too young to watch the early 80s games so I vote for Hakeem's 94 run. Considering the competition and the stats, Hakeem did really great.

He doesn't have shame. I don't understand the guy. How can you be so obsessed over a dead guy who last played a NBA game 39 years ago?

And thanks for the vote.
18 votes so far. 1995 Hakeem leading the way with 7 votes.

[dunksby]

God damn I hate jlaube with a passion, it's bad I gotta scroll down his wall of texts, he turns every god damn thread into a Wilt's decayed **** sucking fest. MFer now has the nerve to disrespect the GOAT basketball player of all time!
Kareem>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wilt, yes it aint ****n close.

[dunksby]

I'm voting for Kareem's 1971 run.

[oolalaa]

Jerry West, 1969.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Jerry West, 1969.

It's a shame he didn't win the Championship. 37.9 ppg in the Finals and 42/13/12 in Game 7.

I know Jordan averaged 41.0 ppg in the '93 Finals, which is #1 highest ppg in an NBA Finals. But is West's 37.9 ppg in the '69 Finals #2?

[caliman]

Am I the only one that lol'd when I saw Chauncey Billups' sorry ass stats after reading all of these amazing "all time greats" stats, all of the 30+ PPG's and 15+ RPG's?

Exhibit A of why Ben Wallace should have been FMVP. And if not him then Rip.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I want to ultimately create a top 10 of the greatest playoff runs of alltime voted by InsideHoops

So I'll make a #2 thread soon. If you have not voted yet vote now.

It's the offseason now so I dont know what else to post about

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem didn't even lead the Rockets in Win shares in 1995 in the playoffs.

[Duncan21formvp]

I want to say MJ in '91, but Hakeem's name is beckoning for that '95 performance. He did that against a young Shaquille O'Neal being the primary defender on him, so that's just goddamn impressive.

Yeah but Jordan had to beat the 2x defending champions and arguably the player who was a top 3 all time in Magic in the next round.