"How overrated is Kyrie Irving???" -PleezeBelieve

[NuggetsFan]

Just took a glance. Irving's minutes put him at 64-66 range for minutes. Woulda been in the 86-87 range last year at 30 and a half. Quick glance at the past few years seems like players played anywhere from 1-3 minutes less. I was kinda wrong.

I do believe you'd have to look at each situation itself tho. Can't just say Tyreke wouldn't have played 35-38 minutes this year. We have no clue, Kings coulda been like f*ck it.

[9erempiree]

Nah, PER36 is pretty insulting to what the players actually did. It's "Look what youcould do if you played 36 minutes you lazy ****".

basically this.

[RedBlackAttack]

Tyreke wouldn't have played 35-38 minutes this year. We have no clue, Kings coulda been like f*ck it.

Agreed... So, why don't we just take a look at this past year since it is impossible to compare a normal rookie season to a condensed rookie season...

Kyrie Irving
30.5 minutes
18.5 points (47% FG, 87% FT, 40% 3PT)
5.4 assists
4 rebounds
1.1 steals

Tyreke Evans
34.3 minutes
16.5 points (45% FG, 78% FT, 20% 3PT)
4.5 assists
4.6 rebounds
1.3 steals

One guy was 19. The other guy was 22.

[Punpun]

>Comparin some guy 3rd year to a rookie year when the discussion is about Rookie vs Rookie.

Way to make a relevant point.

[NuggetsFan]

Agreed... So, why don't we just take a look at this past year since it is impossible to compare a normal rookie season to a condensed rookie season...

Kyrie Irving
30.5 minutes
18.5 points (47% FG, 87% FT, 40% 3PT)
5.4 assists
4 rebounds
1.1 steals

Tyreke Evans
34.3 minutes
16.5 points (45% FG, 78% FT, 20% 3PT)
4.5 assists
4.6 rebounds
1.3 steals

I don't recall saying Evans was better. Even in their rookie season. I was just generally curious about the minute discussion. Early on I talked about Evans and OJ's rookie years. I believe I went on to say Irving was far more in control and an advanced shooter.

[RedBlackAttack]

>Comparin some guy 3rd year to a rookie year when the discussion is about Rookie vs Rookie.

Way to make a relevant point.

Just showing that the rigorous schedule obviously impacted his game... Or he is just regressing as a player... Or a combination of the two.

Again, not a coincidence that his minutes were way down this year... From 37 to 34.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't recall saying Evans was better. Even in their rookie season. I was just generally curious about the minute discussion. Early on I talked about Evans and OJ's rookie years. I believe I went on to say Irving was far more in control and an advanced shooter.

I wasn't insinuating that you were saying Evans was better... Just showing how I believe Evans numbers (most notably his minutes) were down during this past season. I do not believe it is a coincidence (condensed season/numbers down across the board).

[Punpun]

Just showing that the rigorous schedule obviously impacted his game... Or he is just regressing as a player... Or a combination of the two.

Again, not a coincidence that his minutes were way down this year... From 37 to 34.

So what ? We are comparing what they accomplished on their rookie season. Not what they could have accomplished. Please, try to be a lil bit logical.

[NuggetsFan]

I wasn't insinuating that you were saying Evans was better... Just showing how I believe Evans numbers (most notably his minutes) were down during this past season. I do not believe it is a coincidence (condensed season/numbers down across the board).

Makes sense.

[RedBlackAttack]

Please, try to be a lil bit logical.

Logic would tell you that, if minutes were down across the league, it is a legitimate discussion point when comparing and contrasting these two seasons.

Also, logic wouldn't refuse to acknowledge advanced statistics.

[Punpun]

Logic would tell you that, if minutes were down across the league, it is a legitimate discussion point when comparing and contrasting these two seasons.

Also, logic wouldn't refuse to acknowledge advanced statistics.

Logic tells you that your concern about minutes are irrelevant because crying about it won't change Kyrie played less minutes than Tyreke. And that's it. Facts are facts. Stop making excuses about why Tyreke' stats are better.

[RedBlackAttack]

And, with that, I'm done talking about Tyreke Evans in this thread.


To the OP's point...

While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one.

Kyrie Irving needs a few months for foot to heal

I think the Cavs made a huge mistake.

They should've drafted Derrick Williams first and then with the 4th if they still want a PG then go ahead and draft Kemba Walker. I think Walker will have a better career than Irving.

A Walker/Williams duo for the future actually sounds pretty good.

Derrick Williams was the way to go. But I am happy by the way it worked out, Because I am going to really enjoy watching the T-wolves next season. I wouldnt have been as excited for the Cavs.

T-wolves 2012!

The savior of the Cavs and next CP3

I don't think Irving will be a perennial All Star. He could be a solid PG at best or just a guy that will fizzle out. One thing he has over recent point guards like Wall and Rose is that he's coming into the league already a good shooter. He's just not as quick and athletic as those two. He will not put up stellar numbers. He will be good, but not great. I think other guys from this draft will have much better careers than Irving.

Derrick Williams, Kanter > Irving

Derrick Williams and Kemba Walker/ Brandon Knight were the correct picks to make.

I still have trouble remembering Tristan Thompson's name. SOunds like a WNBA player

Savior comment is me being a smartass. On this forum a couple Cavs fans compared his upside to CP3 . I guess a scouting report also said best case scenario= CP3 which is a load of crap. A few people implied he's an all star talent. I think like Senal said this guy is a solid starter, never a star. 15 and 7 in a career best year. Mo Williams caliber where he's a great 3rd option but NOT a franchise changing or carrying worthy player.

I just got annoyed with the praise this guy was getting after 11 games in college and despite the fact that many league scouts said the draft had no legit star players. It's not like he earned it. He has a lot to prove. Maybe I'll be wrong but right now I have any avy bet with you on Kyrie vs Bledsoe right? Or was it the Clippers in the playoffs bet you took?

Look at the list of PG's who averaged 20 ppg and tell me how many are in the hall of fame or will be. I don't know many 20 ppg PG's who aren't elite or at least all star level. It's not that I think this guy sucks.. I just think he will tap out at a Mo Williams level. Great shooter and scorer good for maybe 17 ppg tops and 7 apg. His defense and playmaking aren't anything to write home about. Another thing to remember is as a PG he's going to have a lot more trouble adapting to the NBA game than Lebron did in Cleveland as a 6'8 240 pound SF who had a superior build to everyone.

The problem on top of that is...... Cleveland doesn't have any other weapons you need to worry about besides Baron at times (nobody doubles him anymore though) and Jamison once in a while. You guys traded your best all around player in Hickson. Meaning that IF somehow Irving is a great scorer and does get close to 20 ppg in the next couple years... you guys won't have enough talent around him to take away that pressure. He's going to be the next one man team if that happens. Think Vince Carter's Raptors or T Mac's Magic but not nearly as good of a team.

I may seem like I'm rooting against this kid but I'm not. I'm just right there with Michael Jordan when he says nowadays kids get all this praise before they play a single NBA game. This guy is a high risk, high reward player. Just don't forget HIGH RISK as well. He's not a player who dominated the college ranks like the greats did. Hell Blake Griffin was 2nd all time in double doubles for NCAA and had superstar written all over him according to scouts, drawing Malone comparisons yet most people were skeptical over his game transitioning to the NBA level and all that. After his injury people forgot about him pretty much.

Kyrie has been injury prone his college career and now he's still recovering and injured. Yet people have all this hype and faith about him and he's not even an A prospect. He's a B at best.

This, plus Kemba Walker. Irving got overhyped.

I respect your realism. As long as you aren't one of those who think he's a franchise caliber player.

^^^All that from just one thread about Kyrie's foot. The thread wasn't even about predicting whether or not he will be a franchise player. I would say that -- at least on ISH -- the idea that Kyrie would be as good as he is was laughed at almost across the board.

So, PB shouldn't be the only one called out here.


Take a look at this thread for more...

Kyrie Irving is the next big bust

you heard it here first

You are not alone in thinking that.

But it also depends on expectations of him.... I expect him to carve out a DJ Augustin career, which is a bust given most expectations.

I'd take Brandon Knight over him. And I'd even take Kemba over him - thats saying something.

Yeah, I wouldn't draft Irving with a top 5 pick either.

I'd pick Derrick Williams or Enes Kanter.

etc.

[Jyap9675]

Before season : why is Irving so overrated?
After : Ahh I can see whyyy

Kid's got amazing stroke and have can finish above the rim well. If he improves his passing, he'll be on Cp3's level. Scoring wise tho, I think he's close.

[ralph_i_el]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=216885

April 06, 2011




Now, a little over one year later, Cleveland is going to have the best backcourt in the NBA with a rookie starting at SG and Irving.

[Real Men Wear Green]

While PB was the most verbose of the "Kyrie isn't very good" movement, he certainly wasn't the only one.

The massive problem is that he wants to take credit like some kind of Nostradamus. Every one of us has been wrong about predictions here and there. But how many of us would go from making a thread like he made bashing Irving to some idiotic claim that he predicted greatness but then we deleted his prediction? PB is a bad joke who deserves all the shit he gets. Really he should just be banned, but whatever.