Higher on the all-time SG list: Allen Iverson or Ray Allen?

[Owl]

No, because that team was built around AI. Lots of good defenders who don't want the ball much and a fairly tall pg so AI can defend the pg spot. Apart from a year with Melo (by which time he was the secondary star) he couldn't work with anyone else who wanted the ball.

But then could AI subliate his ego to work with Garnett and Pierce? Given how his NBA career ended one suspects not.

AI was more marketable, probably more talented, and able to score a lot, and get to the line enough that his shooting was okay efficiency wise. There are a few negative intangible there though.

Ray Allen has been a better teammate, easier to coach, is easier to build around. That said he was less able to create shots than I would have thought off the top of my head (his scoring averages are very consistent but no great peak).

They are very different stylistically so context would be a big part of who you'd want. Outside of any context I'd slightly lean Ray because you can see/have seen him contributing on a really good team. I fear the best team you could build around AI would be a wealthy mans version of the '01 Sixers.

Melo is the only comparable talent to KG/Pierce that AI has played with. Not sure his ego got in the way of that working. The guys surrounded around AI werent even on KG/Pierce level. Had they been it would have been nice to see to show fans if he could coexist. Glen Robb? He wasnt even the same Glenn Rob Ray Allen played with. Chris Webber? He wasnt the Sac Kings Webber. Kukoc? Laughable. I cant think of players they put around AI that worked. And AI is not the type to set up guys like Steve Nash. He's a scorer like Kobe only mgmt put pieces around Kobe. AI? Not so much.

There's two seperate points here. I never argued that Iverson had KG, Pierce level teammates. He didn't have title calibre teammates.

But what what I stated was at the end of his NBA career he showed an unwillingness to adapt his game to fit the needs of his team. I'd stand by that.

And as for how how secondary and tertiary (3rd) options fared with him Kukoc, Webber and Robinson aren't the only ones there was Derrick Coleman, Jerry Stackhouse, Joe Smith, Tim Thomas, Larry Hughes, Keith Van Horn and other scorers like Corliss Williamson, Clarence Weatherspoon. None of them succeeded with with Iverson because he needed the ball so darned much. The only exception was Denver and that was him moving onto someone elses turf where he had no option, and he still took more shots than Melo.

As you acknowledge he was not a setup type guy, he was a perimeter scorer who needed a lot of shots which is what I'm alluding to when I say it's easier to get pieces to fit with Ray, and that the best team you could build around AI would be a wealthy man's '01 Sixers. Maybe the Lakers model you allude to could work, but it's rare to get 2 good big men and a combo forward who can all create their own shots to a degree, but aren't greedy for too many shots, 2 of whom are good passers. And Iverson would have to give up shots as Kobe did and Iverson did to a degree upon moving to Denver.

Anyway I don't want to get too deep into this because I don't want to seem like I'm attacking AI because I think they're very close as players like I said in my first post.

[tobethdope]

people exposing themselves as clueless here...

iverson was such an unique player, his drive to the rim/layups and his jumpers are right up there with the best we

[$LakerGold]

The thing is, Iverson was a different type of player... he had the speed.
So that's what make it great about him.

Anyways, Iverson led the Sixers to the Finals and Ray Allen couldn't do it himself, as you could see. Just because Iverson didn't win any championship doesn't mean he's a less better player than a player that won a championship. He just landed on a sucky ass team.

So who's better? Iverson, hands down.
Although each players had different specialty. But Iverson was way more better than what Ray Allen was doing.

[Xiao Yao You]

Ray easily. There's a reason he's still around and no one wants AI.

[markymark]

Kids, please.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=1950,8437347

There isn't a single player today who's willing to do what he did - swallowed his own blood just so the refs won't take him out with the game on the line. Today, you'll get an automatic timeout if you have a small scratch on your arm.

This goes to show the type of player he was, apart from his godly, once-in-a-generation talent.

Ray "KG and Paul pls help me get a ring" Allen? It ain't even close.

[swi7ch]

Prime years - AI
Overall years - Ray

[swi7ch]

Ray easily. There's a reason he's still around and no one wants AI.

It's because Ray is OK with coming off the bench with MIA whereas AI doesn't want to come off the bench. If he did, he would also still be in the NBA today. Any game, AI can still get hot and give you 30+

[Xiao Yao You]

After playing in Turkey he did say last year he would come off the bench now. Even in his prime there were teams that would have wanted nothing to do with him. Every team in the league would want Ray at anytime in his career. AI could give you 30 maybe still but how many shots would he take to do it?

[ripthekik]

Ray easily. There's a reason he's still around and no one wants AI.

This is a totally different comparison. Ray is around because he is more suited as a complimentary star player. He is a great shooter. But even in his prime, I think he is best suited as the number 2 guy in a team.

But if you need a guy to lead your team.. it's AI.

[amfirst]

Allen Iverson. Ray is a good shooter by lets not forget and amazing young AI was going against the big bad Lakers. No way Ray can duplicate that performance in the playoffs.

[oolalaa]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Jerry West
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Clyde Drexler
6. Sam Jones
7. George Gervin
8. Allen Iverson
9. Hal Greer
10. Reggie Miller
11. Ray allen
12. David Thompson
13. Pete Maravich
14. Bill Sharman
15. Earl Monroe

[Boston C's]

This is a totally different comparison. Ray is around because he is more suited as a complimentary star player. He is a great shooter. But even in his prime, I think he is best suited as the number 2 guy in a team.

But if you need a guy to lead your team.. it's AI.

Ray could def lead a team to a championship if they built the right team around him...never played with a good big man til k.g hell even a decent big man...his bucks teams outside of robinson and cassell werent that great and robinson was like an antoine walker type player who took a lot of shots to get points...and plz anyone knows that in seattle ray was stuck with some horrible teams...how they won 52 games and took the spurs to the brink of elimination in 05 is a miracle in itself and is a testament to how good a superstar ray allen is....iverson is better but lets not act like ray allen was just some joe schmo

[Figlo]

Prime: Iverson
Peak: Iverson
Career: I'll say AI but it's very close IMO

[noob cake]

Ray Allen is a exceptionally good good role player/3rd option. Iverson was a franchise player.

[LakersForlife]

id take A.I. not even close