Shaquille O'Neals impact on the Miami Heat

[SilkkTheShocker]

Actually Wade shot 49% in the 05 ECF vs Detroit's #1 ranked D (compared to Kobe's very poor 36% in the Finals the year before against the same D).. And wade shot a whopping crazy 64% against Detroit's #1 ranked D in the 2006 ECF (the same year the Pistons had a franchise record for wins)

and here's a small snippet of Wade total dominance vs that #1 ranked D...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lS7663Vzw

^ enjoy.... not only did Wade lead the team statistically in just about every area in the series, but 64 f*cking percent !!! ;-)

.

Thats one of my favorite highlight videos on youtube. Open Fire goes so well with Wade's run against the Pistons

[DaSeba5]

Actually Wade shot 49% in the 05 ECF vs Detroit's #1 ranked D (compared to Kobe's very poor 36% in the Finals the year before against the same D).. And wade shot a whopping crazy 64% against Detroit's #1 ranked D in the 2006 ECF (the same year the Pistons had a franchise record for wins)

and here's a small snippet of Wade total dominance vs that #1 ranked D...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lS7663Vzw

^ enjoy.... not only did Wade lead the team statistically in just about every area in the series, but 64 f*cking percent !!! ;-)

.

[Freedom Kid7]

Actually Wade shot 49% in the 05 ECF vs Detroit's #1 ranked D (compared to Kobe's very poor 36% in the Finals the year before against the same D).. And wade shot a whopping crazy 64% against Detroit's #1 ranked D in the 2006 ECF (the same year the Pistons had a franchise record for wins)

and here's a small snippet of Wade total dominance vs that #1 ranked D...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lS7663Vzw

^ enjoy.... not only did Wade lead the team statistically in just about every area in the series, but 64 f*cking percent !!! ;-)

.

Not too bad of a mix there.

[Hank]

Yes we all know who the man was in Miami,, "Dwyane Wade and Miami"

And we all know who the man was in LA, "Shaq and the Lakers"

[Freedom Kid7]

Yes we all know who the man was in Miami,, "Dwyane Wade and Miami"

And we all know who the man was in LA, "Shaq and the Lakers"

I can't believe I'm about to agree with you, but Wade was the man in Miami in '06. He had good role players too. Shaq, Zo, etc. I didn't like how certain games were ref'd in dem finals, but whatever. You can make a case for the reffing both ways.
Also, at least give me some sort of response to my post Mr. Hank.

[Hank]

I can't believe I'm about to agree with you, but Wade was the man in Miami in '06. He had good role players too. Shaq, Zo, etc. I didn't like how certain games were ref'd in dem finals.

Not too bad of a mix there.

Wade in 2005.

Game 2-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKej92KcQs

Wade's Game 3- Shaq admits he was playing at just 40% in an interview here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSoPh7k4lb0

Wade playing without Shaq and on the bench sweeping a series- DOMINATING all over the court

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcmgy89_DNs

and there's tons more on youtube of Wade during those 2 playoff runs. It's all there, just refresh your memory. The bottomline is we haven't seen a guard enter the league and play at such a "polished" high level with an all-around game (so soon) since Jordan. From his high efficiency, and his scoring in a WIDE variety of ways, to use of both hands in all directions, his explosiveness, quickness, balance, power, great defense, his steals, blocks, his vision, his superb "timing",,,, and there's so many more attributes that prove we haven't witnessed a guard enter the league with such a superb and "polished" all-around game since Michael Jordan. Dwyane Wade was incredible

..

[Freedom Kid7]

Wade in 2005.

Game 2-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKej92KcQs

Wade's Game 3- Shaq admits he was playing at just 40% in an interview here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSoPh7k4lb0

Wade playing without Shaq and on the bench sweeping a series- DOMINATING all over the court

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcmgy89_DNs

and there's tons more on youtube of Wade during those 2 playoff runs,

Meant the other post, but you know, I ain't mad. Solid links

[Hank]

Thats one of my favorite highlight videos on youtube. Open Fire goes so well with Wade's run against the Pistons

This is one is likely my favorite Wade video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p52I1Oy-7M

^ all pre-2007 ;-)

I just think alot of people missed how amazing Wade was, as he was hidden somewhat in Miami. In a big market like LA, NY, or chicago, it would have been an entirely different story. But his game doesnt lie

[Raz]

and I agree with em all. Worthy was a 3rd wheel. Dumars wasn't all that great (please kid), and Pippen is right where he should be. Wade was to Shaq like Jordan was to Pippen, And Shaq in LA was to Kobe like Jordan was to Pippen

Says who? You? Look beyond stats - watch games.

lol marbury Dennis johnson et al. these are the same players you put down in other threads

I put them down? Nope. Is Marbury better than Isiah Thomas? Tell me that d[COLOR="Black"]i[/COLOR]cksmack.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wade did surpass Shaq as a player by their second year together when they won a title, but Shaq was still making a huge impact on the court.

Miami was only 10-13 without Shaq in '06, 10-11 when Wade played, and that was with an excellent back up, Alonzo Mourning to fill in. Mourning averaged 12/9 with 4 blocks per game as a starter, yet that was the difference between even '06 Shaq a very good center since Miami went 42-17 and won a title with Shaq.

Interesting to note that Wade shot only 44.7% in 21 games without Shaq in '06, and 51.6% in 54 games with him.

That's because Shaq was still a huge mismatch for most teams. A few more were trying to guard him 1 on 1 by that point than in his prime, but he'd usually have big games vs single coverage.

From the '04-'05 season

"Everyone is focused on him," Wade said. "I've never seen anyone get the attention he does. When Shaq's on the floor, thing open up for me. It's been a little easier for me to pick and choose my spots. The attention that he draws makes things a lot easier when he's on the floor."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...had&id=1915767

Detroit still had one of the better defensive frontcourts in the league, but they guarded Shaq 1 on 1 most of the series, and he averaged 22/11 with 2.3 bpg on 66% shooting, and closed out the series with a 28/16 game with 5 blocks on 12/14 shooting with Wade limited by flu-like symptoms.

That probably contributed to Avery Johnson doubling Shaq constantly in the finals, often on the catch, which is one thing people forget about Shaq's finals series, even though it was quiet. Wade carried the team, but Shaq being the primary focus of the Mavs defense may have helped this happen.

The Detroit series was one of 2 series that year where I'd say their impact was comparable. The other was Wade's worst series vs the Bulls when Shaq had big games like 27/16 with 5 blocks on 11/16 shooting in game 1 and 30/20 with 5 assists and 2 blocks to close out the series for averages of 20/11/2, 2.2 bpg, 61%.

And Shaq leading Miami to a 16-7 record without Wade even in '07 does show that his impact went well beyond numbers even at that point since that cast was pretty old, and not looking very good all year.

Chuck Daly from the '06 playoffs.....

[QUOTE=Chuck Daly]"It's amusing to me," Hall of Fame coach Chuck Daly said, adding that O'Neal remains one of the top five players in the league regardless of his stats. "Every night, people are playing him with two, 2

[Owl]

To the general point, Shaq and Wade were clearly both very important to Miami with Wade being a bit more important. That gap got bigger in the playoffs

You're using PER? PER???

Go look at James Worthy's PER (cracked over 20 PER once), Joe Dumars (never cracked 20), Scottie Pippen's PER, and many more. Bill Russell's PER was over 20 for his first 4 seasons, and after that, never again. PER doesn't mean jack shit.

Eat it Heat fan. We're gonna beat your asses this year as well.

Worthy was a 2 time All-NBA 3rd team player i.e. he was very good (7x All-Star), but not great. His PER reflects that. At the appex of his a career he raised his game in the playoffs. His playoff PERs reflect that.

The other numbers are for strong defensive players which most PER advocates and it's creator aknowledge it doesn't cover. This doesn't mean that "PER doesn't mean shit", it just means that you have to take additional factors into account. So in this argument you could choose to argue that Shaq was a better defender than Wade, that Shaq was better in the locker room, that Shaq double teams got Wade open shots or that shot blockers stayed away from Wade because they had to stay at home on Shaq. Some of those arguments would be more persuasive than others.

Similarly for the pictured players DJ and Isiah are substantially past their prime, and are taking on smaller roles than they had earlier in their career. You compare that with a season in which Marbury had his best performance over a full season in fg%, 3 point%, ft%, lowest turnovers plus near peak seasons in scoring, getting to the line and steals and it's going to say he had good season. He did. Obviously it overrates him because he was a poor defender and a negative influence in the locker room (at least throughout most of his career), but you'd weigh that in if he was the subject of this comparision.

I don't think the weightings in PER are perfect (I think it marginally overvalues gunners) but used sensibly theres nothing wrong with it.

[Round Mound]

are you really trying to say what Gasol did a few years ago wasn't elite? Why is it blasphemous to say Gasol had better years than Stock? Get bent, fake Lakers fan.

[magnax1]

Wade was clearly better then Shaq every year but 05, and by the end of the 05 season and beggining of the 05 playoffs Wade was every bit as good as Shaq. They were both elite players in 05 and 06 anyway, but Wade's impact was quite a bit larger then Shaq's throughout their whole run in Miami.