Put LeBron on the 91 bulls at the same age as Jordan

[scandisk_]

LeBron is F*cking clutch. Same guy who led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2007-2010. LeBron was F*cking clutch in the 2012 playoffs that's why he's the reigning Finals MVP while your favorite NBA player is still ring less.

of course he's clutch Just not as clutch as MJ though

[tobethdope]

id guess the even line for over/under shud be at 1-2 rings

besides, the difficulty to win 6 (pretty much in a row) is way harder than 5, its very disproportionate; id say its at least twice as hard to win 6 rather than 5, and at least ten times as unlikely as to win 3

[OldSchoolBBall]

2-4 championships from what I've seen of Lebron so far. Three things are important here:

- Lebron is nowhere near the off-ball player Jordan was, which means that he'd play more on the ball, which would nullify some of Pippen's effectiveness and perhaps cause disinterest in the rest of the team.

- How would Lebron do in a more physical era where he isn't being gifted 10-15+ FT's nightly and where flopping isn't rewarded and you couldn't just go barreling into people and expect a call? How does he handle the Pistons and Knicks?

- How will Lebron age? In this topic, we're assuming a 27 year old Lebron on the '91 Bulls, which was his age this past season. Will be as good as '96 or '97 MJ was in 5-6 seasons? Will he be able to expand on his game the way MJ did to stay relatively similarly effective?

[BrickingStar]

0 ring

That choker cant replace Mike..

You weren't even alive in 91 what does your dumbass know

[Da_Realist]

id guess the even line for over/under shud be at 1-2 rings

besides, the difficulty to win 6 (pretty much in a row) is way harder than 5, its very disproportionate; id say its at least twice as hard to win 6 rather than 5, and at least ten times as unlikely as to win 3

It's hard to win 6 championships. It takes more than talent to win that many. It takes leadership, drive, good health, good coaching staff, etc. Let's see Lebron win one or two more first. Let's see what that fire in his belly looks like after winning one last year. The world puts pressure on you to win the first title. After that, the fire must come from within.

[Dragonyeuw]

A few questions: does Pippen develop into the same kind of player alongside Lebron? Those two have very similar tendencies and style, and with Lebron being so much more on the ball than Jordan was, how much does that impact Pippen's game? Can Lebron motivate him the way Jordan did?

[guy]

- How will Lebron age? In this topic, we're assuming a 27 year old Lebron on the '91 Bulls, which was his age this past season. Will be as good as '96 or '97 MJ was in 5-6 seasons? Will he be able to expand on his game the way MJ did to stay relatively similarly effective?

To me, it didn't seem like Jordan really expanded on his game during the 2nd threepeat. He may have improved on his post game and range but not by much. He was always supremely skilled, he just didn't have to depend on it as much due to his elite athleticism which pretty much enabled him to get to the basket anytime he wanted to. I just think he utilized his skillset more during the 2nd three-peat since he had to as his athleticism faded.

Thats the biggest difference between him and Lebron. Jordan didn't develop those skills as he aged, he already had them. So if Lebron is going to stay on top of the league like Jordan did as he ages, are we going to assume he's going to magically become one of the greatest post/midrange/jumpshooting players ever all of a sudden? IMO, only his passing is an elite aspect of his game that isn't so dependent on his athleticism.

I think some people make an incorrect assumption that players regularly make this huge step in their skillset in their lat 20s. After 27, I don't think a player's skillset changes that much. I don't think he's going to stop being a great player in this league cause even if he does lose athleticism, he will still have alot much like Jordan was still very athletic in his mid-30s, but instead of being the consensus best player in the league the way Jordan still was, I think he'd probably be more in the #7-#10 range, maybe even right outside the top 10 by the time he turns 31 or 32. Not to mention how many minutes he'll have on his body by then.

[Dragonyeuw]

So if Lebron is going to stay on top of the league like Jordan did as he ages, are we going to assume he's going to magically become one of the greatest post/midrange/jumpshooting players ever all of a sudden?

The odds of 'suddenly' becoming a great shooter after 9 seasons are pretty slim. There's a myth that Jordan coming into the league couldn't shoot; while he obviously improved in that area and reformed his jumpshot( Prime Jordan's jumper looks quite different from early career Jordan), he was never a 'non-shooter'.

And like you said, Jordan had the post-game and midrange game honed to perfection during the first 3-peat, while still having elite athleticism to go along with experience. That's why most consider first 3-peat Jordan the best version of MJ. It was a point when basically everything came together at once. 2nd 3peat MJ featured the post and mid-range/fadeaway game alot more to compensate for declining physical skills( as you said), but he already had that ability by the time he was 27-28.

[Da_Realist]

To me, it didn't seem like Jordan really expanded on his game during the 2nd threepeat. He may have improved on his post game and range but not by much. He was always supremely skilled, he just didn't have to depend on it as much due to his elite athleticism which pretty much enabled him to get to the basket anytime he wanted to. I just think he utilized his skillset more during the 2nd three-peat since he had to as his athleticism faded.

Thats the biggest difference between him and Lebron. Jordan didn't develop those skills as he aged, he already had them. So if Lebron is going to stay on top of the league like Jordan did as he ages, are we going to assume he's going to magically become one of the greatest post/midrange/jumpshooting players ever all of a sudden? IMO, only his passing is an elite aspect of his game that isn't so dependent on his athleticism.

I think some people make an incorrect assumption that players regularly make this huge step in their skillset in their lat 20s. After 27, I don't think a player's skillset changes that much. I don't think he's going to stop being a great player in this league cause even if he does lose athleticism, he will still have alot much like Jordan was still very athletic in his mid-30s, but instead of being the consensus best player in the league the way Jordan still was, I think he'd probably be more in the #7-#10 range, maybe even right outside the top 10 by the time he turns 31 or 32. Not to mention how many minutes he'll have on his body by then.

One thing to consider is that Lebron will always be 6'8" with a sizable strength and/or speed advantage over people that are guarding him. Lebron at his size doesn't need the technical skill level that Jordan had in the post to be as effective. Magic didn't have the footwork et al but was tremendously effective working out of the post due to his size and passing ability. Lebron will always be either too big/strong or too quick for most defenders. Rarely will someone be as strong and as quick. MJ had to be as technically sound at 6'6" because, although strong, he couldn't barrel over defenders consistently like Lebron can. His footwork had to do the job for him.

It's sort of like how Shaq didn't need Hakeem's footwork.

[guy]

The odds of 'suddenly' becoming a great shooter after 9 seasons are pretty slim. There's a myth that Jordan coming into the league couldn't shoot; while he obviously improved in that area and reformed his jumpshot( Prime Jordan's jumper looks quite different from early career Jordan), he was never a 'non-shooter'.

And like you said, Jordan had the post-game and midrange game honed to perfection during the first 3-peat, while still having elite athleticism to go along with experience. That's why most consider first 3-peat Jordan the best version of MJ. It was a point when basically everything came together at once. 2nd 3peat MJ featured the post and mid-range/fadeaway game alot more to compensate for declining physical skills( as you said), but he already had that ability by the time he was 27-28.

Exactly. People make this assumption that Lebron is going to develop these skills and stay on top just because they seem to THINK thats what happened with Jordan and even Kobe. When the reality is both Jordan and Kobe were always very skilled scorers and were elite even without the physical dominance. Can't say the same about Lebron.

[guy]

One thing to consider is that Lebron will always be 6'8" with a sizable strength and/or speed advantage over people that are guarding him. Lebron at his size doesn't need the technical skill level that Jordan had in the post to be as effective. Magic didn't have the footwork et al but was tremendously effective working out of the post due to his size and passing ability. Lebron will always be either too big/strong or too quick for most defenders. Rarely will someone be as strong and as quick. MJ had to be as technically sound at 6'6" because, although strong, he couldn't barrel over defenders consistently like Lebron can. His footwork had to do the job for him.

It's sort of like how Shaq didn't need Hakeem's footwork.

This is true, which is why I think he's going to remain a great player. Just like people overstate how much more skilled a player gets as they age, I think they also overstate how much of their physical advantages they lose as they age. However, his physical advantage has already started to fade a bit and he's already not barreling over defenders as much as he did before and that will continue, which is why I have huge doubts he will remain anywhere close to being the best player in the league even if he still is a great player in 3-5 years.

[lilgodfather1]

Exactly. People make this assumption that Lebron is going to develop these skills and stay on top just because they seem to THINK thats what happened with Jordan and even Kobe. When the reality is both Jordan and Kobe were always very skilled scorers and were elite even without the physical dominance. Can't say the same about Lebron.

LeBron will still have a speed advantage over the PF's that will be guarding him into his 30's. Not to mention the range that will draw them far out on to the perimiter. Jordan wasn't big enough to play PF, but LeBron is. He had to adapt to playing a different style when his athletecism faded, but LeBron can play the same style just as a stretch 4 instead.

[riseagainst]

Exactly. People make this assumption that Lebron is going to develop these skills and stay on top just because they seem to THINK thats what happened with Jordan and even Kobe. When the reality is both Jordan and Kobe were always very skilled scorers and were elite even without the physical dominance. Can't say the same about Lebron.

[guy]

LeBron will still have a speed advantage over the PF's that will be guarding him into his 30's. Not to mention the range that will draw them far out on to the perimiter. Jordan wasn't big enough to play PF, but LeBron is. He had to adapt to playing a different style when his athletecism faded, but LeBron can play the same style just as a stretch 4 instead.

He can draw out PFs to the perimeter but his jump shot is nowhere near as good as Jordan's. I do think he'll still be great, but nowhere near the best player in the league and what Jordan was in his 30s.

[Jax]

Lebron youngest scorer to reach 1000,2000,5000,10000,15000,xx... you get the point...