Can centers be considered clutch

[Umad101]

I barely see anyone put them in their top 5, mostly permitter players.

I know their limited scoring the ball in crutch time and most suck at the free throw line. But do u have any center in ur top 5

And don't give me Russell cuz he won 11 rings. Dude overrated and played in a shitty era

[millwad]

I barely see anyone put them in their top 5, mostly permitter players.

I know their limited scoring the ball in crutch time and most suck at the free throw line. But do u have any center in ur top 5

And don't give me Russell cuz he won 11 rings. Dude overrated and played in a shitty era

Olajuwon.

[Umad101]

Olajuwon.

Is he in ur top 5?

[Harison]

You lost me at Russell "Dude overrated", his impact was greater than your Kobe boy.

That said, Hakeem was very clutch, so was Russell, to some extent Duncan (who is a center for years).

[millwad]

Is he in ur top 5?

In my most clutch ever?

Yes.

In his prime ('93-'95), he faced elimination 10 times and his record was 9-1 in those games and the one game he lost was in '93 in a highly controversial game.

This is what Hakeem did in those games;

31/21/7/3/3
23/17/9/3/2
37/17/5/3
25/10/7/3
40/8/3
33/10/4
31/16/3
30/8/10/5
29/11/4

[TheMarkMadsen]

In my most clutch ever?

Yes.

In his prime ('93-'95), he faced elimination 10 times and his record was 9-1 in those games and the one game he lost was in '93 in a highly controversial game.

This is what Hakeem did in those games;

31/21/7/3/3
23/17/9/3/2
37/17/5/3
25/10/7/3
40/8/3
33/10/4
31/16/3
30/8/10/5
29/11/4

Not bad . Haklutch Olajuwon

[CarlosBoozer]

In my most clutch ever?

Yes.

In his prime ('93-'95), he faced elimination 10 times and his record was 9-1 in those games and the one game he lost was in '93 in a highly controversial game.

This is what Hakeem did in those games;

31/21/7/3/3
23/17/9/3/2
37/17/5/3
25/10/7/3
40/8/3
33/10/4
31/16/3
30/8/10/5
29/11/4

Holy crap!

[jlauber]

I could easily cherry-pick and post Wilt's top-10+ playoff games...

Games of 56-35, 53-22, 50-35, 50-17, 46-34, 46-32, 46-23, 45-27, 42-37, 42-29, 41-34, 40-25, 39-30, 38-26 etc.

Instead, however, here were EVERY ONE of his 35 "must-win" and "series clinching" post-season games...

Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.

1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.

2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.

3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.

4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.

5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.

6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.

7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.

8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.

9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.

10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.

11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.

12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.

13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.

14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.

15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.

16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.

17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.

18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.

19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/9 FG, 25 rebounds and 1 assist. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.

20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points on 5/11 FG, 29 rebounds and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.

21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.

22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points on 12/20 FG 14 rebounds and 3 assists. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.

23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points on 4/11 FG, 26 rebounds, 11 assists and 12 blocks (unofficial quad). Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.

24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points on 11/18 FG, 27 rebounds, 6 assists and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.

25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points on 5/10 FG, 21 rebounds and 10 blocks. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.

26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.

27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.

28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points on 7/12 FG,18 rebounds and 9 assists. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.

29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points on 4/6, 31 rebounds and 8 assists. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.

31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.

32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.

33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points on 10/17 FG, 28 rebounds, 4 asissts and 8 blocks. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.

The article about this series sad that Wilt blocked Chicago from playoffs after blocking 49 shots in 7 games.

34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points on 2/2 FG, 22 rebounds, 7 assists. Thurmond had 9 points on 2/9 FG, 18 or 15 rebounds and 5 assists in 32 minutes in the loss.

35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.

That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games. Overall, Wilt's team's went 24-11 in those games, as well.

And while you will notice many of his HUGE games in those "must-win" situations, you will also see just how dominant he was against his OPPOSING centers in them, as well. For instance, he faced Kareem in their two "series clinching games", and outshot him .545 (18-33) to .383 (23-60.) There were even games in which he was outscoring his opposing center by margins as high as 53-7!

[no pun intended]

If you count Tim Duncan as one, then yes.

[millwad]

Wilt is the most clutch ever because I love to cherry pick stats.

While you're at it, remind us about how clutch Wilt was in the finals at the charity stripe.

Wilt in game 7 of the '69 finals went 4 of 13 at the FT-line.... in a game his team lost with 2 points.
And in game 4 of that series his team lost with 1 point, in that game Wilt only made 2 out of 11 FT's..

Sure, he had his clutch moments but a guy who looooooses out on a ring due choking from the FT-line has no case as the most clutch center ever, sorry, but this is the truth.

And the choking in game 7 f the '69 finals wasn't the only choking from the FT-line in his playoff career.

All respect to Wilt and he had an amazing career and many of his qualities are all-time great one's, but most clutch center ever? NEVER.

[CarlosBoozer]

If you count Tim Duncan as one, then yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdsKp94Io0

[millwad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdsKp94Io0

I love plays where centers decide the games at the end, just beautiful.

[jlauber]

While you're at it, remind us about how clutch Wilt was in the finals at the charity stripe.

Wilt in game 7 of the '69 finals went 4 of 13 at the FT-line.... in a game his team lost with 2 points.
And in game 4 of that series his team lost with 1 point, in that game Wilt only made 2 out of 11 FT's..

Sure, he had his clutch moments but a guy who looooooses out on a ring due choking from the FT-line has no case as the most clutch center ever, sorry, but this is the truth.

And the choking in game 7 f the '69 finals wasn't the only choking from the FT-line in his playoff career.

All respect to Wilt and he had an amazing career and many of his qualities are all-time great one's, but most clutch center ever? NEVER.

In that game seven, 4-13 performance from the line, he shot 7-8 from the field (.875), all while oustcoring his OPPOSING CENTER, Russell, 18-6, and outshooting him from the field, 7-8 tp 2-7, and OUTSCORING him from the line, 4-13 to 2-4.

As for that game four, one point loss, yes, ONE game (and BAYLOR shot 2-14 from the field, and 1-6 from the LINE in that game.)

I have said it before, and as you KNOW, Chamberlain's IMPACT at the line FAR exceeded his poor FT shooting. In his 35 Finals, games, his TEAM outshot the opposing team from the line, by a 26-6-3 margin. Hell, in one game in which Chamberlain shot 2-17 from the line, his team OUTSCORED the opposing team from the LINE by a 41-22 margin.

Chamberlain was getting entire TEAM's in foul trouble. And his TEAMMATES benefitted DRAMTICALLY because of it.

How about this example? Wilt's 68-69 Lakers LED the NBA in FTAs, and in the post-season, they ran away with the most FTAs.

Wilt was injured early on in the '70 season, and the Lakers plummetted all the way down to 12th, in a 14 team league. BUT, Wilt came back (miraculously) for the post-season, and his Lakers RAN AWAY with most FTAs (200 more than the next best team.)

Even his biggest weakness was a STRENGTH overall.

[tmacattack33]

Of course they can be.

The whole FT thing only comes into play when your team is winning by a few points and there's less than 35 seconds left in the game.

If it's a tie game, no one is going to hack-a-shack you.

And if you're losing by 1 or 2, same deal...no one would hack-a-shack you.





A clutch game is when the scoring margin is +2, +1, 0 (tied), -1, -2.

So, a center can be used in 3 out of 5 of those situations.

[millwad]

In that game seven, 4-13 performance from the line, he shot 7-8 from the field (.875), all while oustcoring his OPPOSING CENTER, Russell, 18-6, and outshooting him from the field, 7-8 tp 2-7, and OUTSCORING him from the line, 4-13 to 2-4.

I don't care who he outscored, he had huge choking job from the FT-line in that game. One of the worst choking jobs of all-time.

As for that game four, one point loss, yes, ONE game (and BAYLOR shot 2-14 from the field, and 1-6 from the LINE in that game.)

So what? Wilt still CHOKED big time and just because Baylor was shit in that game doesn't make Wilt's huge meltdown at the FT-line any better or as an excuse. Especially not when choked once again in game 7..

And especially not when Wilt in that game only scored 8 points. He missed more FT's than what he scored points and you try to blame it on someone else..

I have said it before, and as you KNOW, Chamberlain's IMPACT at the line FAR exceeded his poor FT shooting. In his 35 Finals, games, his TEAM outshot the opposing team from the line, by a 26-6-3 margin. Hell, in one game in which Chamberlain shot 2-17 from the line, his team OUTSCORED the opposing team from the LINE by a 41-22 margin.

Irrelevant. And what's your point? Is Wilt's teammates making 39 FT's in a game where Wilt makes 2 out of 17 something that makes Wilt even greater or more clutch?

[QUOTE=jlauber]
Chamberlain was getting entire TEAM's in foul trouble. And his TEAMMATES benefitted DRAMTICALLY because of it.

Still irrelevant, it's about being clutch and Wilt CHOKED too many times from the FT-line to be called the most clutch center ever.

How about this example? Wilt's 68-69 Lakers LED the NBA in FTAs, and in the post-season, they ran away with the most FTAs.

And in the same season Wilt lost a title due horrible FT-shooting, what's your point?

Wilt was injured early on in the '70 season, and the Lakers plummetted all the way down to 12th, in a 14 team league. BUT, Wilt came back (miraculously) for the post-season, and his Lakers RAN AWAY with most FTAs (200 more than the next best team.)

Even his biggest weakness was a STRENGTH overall.

It's not a strength when you miss out on a ring due the fact that you can't shoot FT's..

And it's still not about free throw attempts, it's about how many you make and Wilt is one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time.

Wilt has no case as the most clutch ever, why do you always have to cherry pick stats just to hype up Wilt. The answer on every question in not Wilt.

Wilt's biggest weakness was a huge weakness and NO strength, and it cost him one ring.