Can centers be considered clutch

[Hands of Iron]

Which has, what exactly, to do with the topic?

Well come to think of it, five of the top six were Centers and it didn't turn out too disagreeable imo. Certainly they all had to bring a certain amount of 'clutchness' which to some people seems to be limited to the last couple minutes of a game. How about dominating and impacting a must win game over the duration as a whole? OP also spoke of how he rarely sees Centers in top 5 lists.

[jlip]

Yes centers can, have, and will continue to be clutch especially if you don't use the modern and foolishly narrow minded definition of clutch which basically limits this concept to game winning shots in the last few seconds of a contest. If you define clutch as simply coming through when your team needs you most during either game or series determining moments then the answer is again easily, yes.

[josh99]

I barely see anyone put them in their top 5, mostly permitter players.

I know their limited scoring the ball in crutch time and most suck at the free throw line. But do u have any center in ur top 5

And don't give me Russell cuz he won 11 rings. Dude overrated and played in a shitty era

It depends what you mean by clutch, is clutch playing well in big games or playing well in the last 2 minutes of a game?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wilt '71 Playoffs: 21.3 TR% (12 games)
Wilt '72 Playoffs: 20.2 TRB% (15 games)
Wilt '73 Playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (17 games)

Moses '77 playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (12 games)
Moses '83 Playoffs: 21.9 TRB% (13 games)

Duncan '08 Playoffs: 21.4 TRB% (17 games)

Dwight '09 Playoffs: 24.5 TRB% (23 games)

Shaq '03 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (12 games)

Rodman '95 Playoffs: 25.7 TRB% (14 games)
Rodman '89 Playoffs: 24.4 TRB% (17 games)
Rodman '96 Playoffs: 24.3 TRB% (18 games)
Rodman '98 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (21 games)


Wilt isn't some rebounder that is on another level from everyone else.

[jlauber]

Wilt '71 Playoffs: 21.3 TR% (12 games)
Wilt '72 Playoffs: 20.2 TRB% (15 games)
Wilt '73 Playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (17 games)

Moses '77 playoffs: 21.7 TRB% (12 games)
Moses '83 Playoffs: 21.9 TRB% (13 games)

Duncan '08 Playoffs: 21.4 TRB% (17 games)

Dwight '09 Playoffs: 24.5 TRB% (23 games)

Shaq '03 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (12 games)

Rodman '95 Playoffs: 25.7 TRB% (14 games)
Rodman '89 Playoffs: 24.4 TRB% (17 games)
Rodman '96 Playoffs: 24.3 TRB% (18 games)
Rodman '98 Playoffs: 21.3 TRB% (21 games)


Wilt isn't some rebounder that is on another level from everyone else.

First of all, those were Wilt's LAST three post-seasons.

Secondly, YES, Wilt did play 48 mpg in the post-season (47.2 mpg in his 160 post-season games), and he was the ONLY player doing it.

Thirdly, Wilt outrebounded EVERYBODY in the post-season. MANY by HUGE margins. He had THREE playoff series against RUSSELL in which he outrebounded him by FIVE, FIVE, and NINE rpg. He outrebounded Thurmond in all three of their H2H post-season series, and the last two by margins of FOUR and SIX rpg.

Fourth, a PRIME Chamberlain had KNOWN series, and against RUSSELL no less, of 25% of the total available rebounds. When Wilt was on the floor, he OWNED the glass.

Fifth, Rodman AVERAGED 9.9 rpg in his entire post-season career, and his HIGH series was 16.0 rpg (in a THREE game series.) Chamberlain AVERAGED 24.5 rpg in his post-season career, which included EIGHT post-seasons of 24.7+ rpg, and as high as 29.1 and even 30.2 rpg. And he had THREE post-season series, just against RUSSELL, of 30.2 rpg, 31.4 rpg, and 32.0 rpg.

Finally, and as both Psileas and ThaRegul8r have pointed out, Chamberlain was blocking over 7 shots per game late in his playoff career, and probably had post-seasons of over 10 bpg. He also went after many others. How many rebounds did Chamberlain LOSE by going for blocks?

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Duncan always sems to hit the big shot when they need it. Sometimes crazy falling away shots. I consider him pretty clutch.

Kareem was clutch.

[Deuce Bigalow]

First of all, those were Wilt's LAST three post-seasons.

Secondly, YES, Wilt did play 48 mpg in the post-season (47.2 mpg in his 160 post-season games), and he was the ONLY player doing it.

Thirdly, Wilt outrebounded EVERYBODY in the post-season. MANY by HUGE margins. He had THREE playoff series against RUSSELL in which he outrebounded him by FIVE, FIVE, and NINE rpg. He outrebounded Thurmond in all three of their H2H post-season series, and the last two by margins of FOUR and SIX rpg.

Fourth, a PRIME Chamberlain had KNOWN series, and against RUSSELL no less, of 25% of the total available rebounds. When Wilt was on the floor, he OWNED the glass.

Fifth, Rodman AVERAGED 9.9 rpg in his entire post-season career, and his HIGH series was 16.0 rpg (in a THREE game series.) Chamberlain AVERAGED 24.5 rpg in his post-season career, which included EIGHT post-seasons of 24.7+ rpg, and as high as 29.1 and even 30.2 rpg. And he had THREE post-season series, just against RUSSELL, of 30.2 rpg, 31.4 rpg, and 32.0 rpg.

Finally, and as both Psileas and ThaRegul8r have pointed out, Chamberlain was blocking over 7 shots per game late in his playoff career, and probably had post-seasons of over 10 bpg. He also went after many others. How many rebounds did Chamberlain LOSE by going for blocks?

at how clueless you are.

Go ahead post more stats

Wilt's TRB% in the '72 Playoffs was 21.2.
Dwight's TRB% in the '09 Playoffs 24.5. His RPG was 15.3.

Do you not get it yet?

[millwad]

No one should actually take Wilt and some of the oldschool players rebounding numbers seriously.

Like all yesterday Jlauber was bragging about the amount of rebounds Wilt averaged in the '67 finals.

Sure, Wilt averaged 28.5 rebounds per game in that finals but only to show how stupid and ignorant Jlauber is when he makes comparisons between Wilt's rebounding stats and the modern era players rebounding stats we can compare the modern era field goal attempts per game compared to Wilt's era's field goal attempts.

And since Jlauber was bragging about Wilt's rebounding in the '67 finals, lets compare it to the 2012 NBA finals and Miami Heat.

The Warriors in the '67 finals AVERAGED 74 missed shots per game, the Miami Heat of 2012 averaged 77 field goal attempts per game and the Thunder averaged 80 field goal attempts per game.

And it doesn't stop there, the Warriors averaged 124 shots per game during the '67 finals, that is 47 shots more than the Heat and 44 shots more per game than the Thunder.

I guess everyone but Jlauber realizes how stupid it is to compare Wilt's rebounding to any player from the modern era. Too bad that he won't ever understand it himself.

[jlauber]

No one should actually take Wilt and some of the oldschool players rebounding numbers seriously.

Like all yesterday Jlauber was bragging about the amount of rebounds Wilt averaged in the '67 finals.

Sure, Wilt averaged 28.5 rebounds per game in that finals but only to show how stupid and ignorant Jlauber is when he makes comparisons between Wilt's rebounding stats and the modern era players rebounding stats we can compare the modern era field goal attempts per game compared to Wilt's era's field goal attempts.

And since Jlauber was bragging about Wilt's rebounding in the '67 finals, lets compare it to the 2012 NBA finals and Miami Heat.

The Warriors in the '67 finals AVERAGED 74 missed shots per game, the Miami Heat of 2012 averaged 77 field goal attempts per game and the Thunder averaged 80 field goal attempts per game.

And it doesn't stop there, the Warriors averaged 124 shots per game during the '67 finals, that is 47 shots more than the Heat and 44 shots more per game than the Thunder.

I guess everyone but Jlauber realizes how stupid it is to compare Wilt's rebounding to any player from the modern era. Too bad that he won't ever understand it himself.

Let's see...

In game one of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Wilt grabbed 32 rebounds (Russell had 15 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 120 available rebounds. Let's help Dickwad here shall we...

32/120 = 26.7%

In the clinching game five of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Chamberlain had 36 rebounds (Russell had 21 BTW) out of a TOTAL of 128 available.

36/128 = 28.1%

In his record-setting game three performance, Wilt ripped down 41 rebounds (Russell had 29 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 134 available rebounds.

41/134 = 30.5%


And those that use TRB% of course do not take actual MINUTES PLAYED into account. Using Dwight Howard's LIMITED minutes (39.5 mpg in his '09 post-season) rewards Howard, and punishes a player like Wilt who COULD and DID play 48 mpg.

Once again, Chamberlain played 47.2 mpg in his ENTIRE post-season career, covering 160 games. And OBVIOUSLY, a more refreshed Wilt, "only" playing 40-42 mpg, would be MORE efficient in TRB%, as well. After all, that stat applies when ON THE FLOOR.


And idiots like Duncewood bringing up Wilt's TRB% in his LAST three seasons (all well over 20% BTW), at ages 34, 35, and 36 (and all on a surgically repaired knee), as if it was a true indicator of Wilt's rebounding ability is truly laughable.

Once again, in Wilt's LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg. In the 2011 post-season, the NBA averaged 41.2 rpg.... or 81.2 % of Wilt's '73 post-season. Wilt's 22.5 rpg translates to 18.3 rpg in the 2011 post-season. And keep in mind that was a 36 year old Wilt.


You want some other examples?

In the clinching game five of the '72 Finals, Chamberlain, with one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED, grabbed 29 rebounds out of a TOTAL of 106 (the ENTIRE Knick team had 39 BTW), or 27.3% of the available rebounds (again, by a 35 year old Wilt.)

How about Wilt's 55 rebound game? He outrebounded RUSSELL, 55-19, and in a game that had 149 TOTAL rebounds. Or 36.9% of the available rebounds.


Of course, Chamberlain played in 29 post-season series...and was NEVER outrebounded in ANY of them. Not only that, but he was battling the game's greatest rebounders in them, as well. Lucas in FOUR, Thurmond in THREE, a PRIME Kareem in TWO, and Russell in EIGHT.

And, as I mentioned previously, he was outrebounding Thurmond by margins of FOUR and even SIX per game in two of those series; Lucas by as much THIRTEEN per game; and Russell by margins of as much as FIVE, FIVE, and even NINE per game in those series.

These sorry attempts to disparage Wilt's accomplishments are laughable...

[millwad]

Let's see...

In game one of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Wilt grabbed 32 rebounds (Russell had 15 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 120 available rebounds. Let's help Dickwad here shall we...

32/120 = 26.7%

In the clinching game five of the '67 ECF's, and against RUSSELL, Chamberlain had 36 rebounds (Russell had 21 BTW) out of a TOTAL of 128 available.

36/128 = 28.1%

In his record-setting game three performance, Wilt ripped down 41 rebounds (Russell had 29 BTW), out of a TOTAL of 134 available rebounds.

41/134 = 30.5%


And those that use TRB% of course do not take actual MINUTES PLAYED into account. Using Dwight Howard's LIMITED minutes (39.5 mpg in his '09 post-season) rewards Howard, and punishes a player like Wilt who COULD and DID play 48 mpg.

Once again, Chamberlain played 47.2 mpg in his ENTIRE post-season career, covering 160 games. And OBVIOUSLY, a more refreshed Wilt, "only" playing 40-42 mpg, would be MORE efficient in TRB%, as well. After all, that stat applies when ON THE FLOOR.


And idiots like Duncewood bringing up Wilt's TRB% in his LAST three seasons (all well over 20% BTW), at ages 34, 35, and 36 (and all on a surgically repaired knee), as if it was a true indicator of Wilt's rebounding ability is truly laughable.

Once again, in Wilt's LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, he averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg. In the 2011 post-season, the NBA averaged 41.2 rpg.... or 81.2 % of Wilt's '73 post-season. Wilt's 22.5 rpg translates to 18.3 rpg in the 2011 post-season. And keep in mind that was a 36 year old Wilt.


You want some other examples?

In the clinching game five of the '72 Finals, Chamberlain, with one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED, grabbed 29 rebounds out of a TOTAL of 106 (the ENTIRE Knick team had 39 BTW), or 27.3% of the available rebounds (again, by a 35 year old Wilt.)

How about Wilt's 55 rebound game? He outrebounded RUSSELL, 55-19, and in a game that had 149 TOTAL rebounds. Or 36.9% of the available rebounds.


Of course, Chamberlain played in 29 post-season series...and was NEVER outrebounded in ANY of them. Not only that, but he was battling the game's greatest rebounders in them, as well. Lucas in FOUR, Thurmond in THREE, a PRIME Kareem in TWO, and Russell in EIGHT.

And, as I mentioned previously, he was outrebounding Thurmond by margins of FOUR and even SIX per game in two of those series; Lucas by as much THIRTEEN per game; and Russell by margins of as much as FIVE, FIVE, and even NINE per game in those series.

These sorry attempts to disparage Wilt's accomplishments are laughable...

Cherry picking stats at it's finest and your reply wasn't an answer to my comment.

Wilt sure outrebounded his peers but you brag about it way too much, he was taller and more athletic, no surprise he grabbed more rebounds.

My thing with your nonsense is the fact that you don't give a damn about the major differences in FGA and missed shots and the extreme pace of that era when you compare Wilt's rebounding stats straight with modern era players..

It takes a retard to do so.