Kareem before Magic.

[bdreason]

LOL @ Dr. J taking Kareem's MVP's.

[TheBigVeto]

This should be a good debate.

Was Kareem even a franchise player before Magic? Since Wilt left the league was there a franchise player in that period before 80?

If you went by consistently winning and big time players in those winning years, you would have no real standouts but only a select few that made return trips to conference finals during that time:

Cowens for work in '74 thru '76 Two championships and conference finals. I think he's the only one who subscribes to the franchise player title.

Rick Barry for his work in '75 and '76. This is the most impressive because he didn't really have good teammates. Rookie Jamal Wilkes was his second best teammate when he won it all and averaged less than half the amount of points as Barry.

After that you can make soft claims for Gus Williams/Dennis Johnson (good for booting Kareem out a couple of years), Elvin Hayes and Dr J. Well I give Dr J a nod because of entertainment value, solid play and his team contending.

Kareem wasn't getting his teams deep in the playoffs despite there not being other good franchises around.

If he wasn't a franchise player in his prime and most productive years when it was a dearth of talent does it affect his GOAT rating? Of course you have to first argue that he wasn't a franchise player.

WTF?

Magic owes more to Kareem than the other way around.
Kareem = true GOAT candidate
Magic = true coat tail rider

[Pointguard]

WTF?

Magic owes more to Kareem than the other way around.
Kareem = true GOAT candidate
Magic = true coat tail rider

No way does Magic play in the 70's and gets one ring. And from '75 to '79 it would seem impossible for him not to win a Conference Final game. Magic, practically, all by his lonesome, won a championship game against a starving and super thirsty MJ and Pippen with several capable franchises and a bunch of super players in the wind. In the mid to late 70's, the good players and solid franchises were lacking considerably.

[IGOTGAME]

LOL @ Dr. J taking Kareem's MVP's.

This.

[caliman]

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

[Pointguard]

During the later '70's Doc does deserve some respect. He was easily the games most exciting player and his team had success in the regular season and the playoffs. The league just wasn't sure about a perimeter player being its face. Doc was captivating to see play.

[Pointguard]

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

The counter argument hasn't stepped up. I have been fair and answered all thoughtful contest. I don't think a lot of people know the era and can't answer as to what went wrong.

[magictricked]

The counter argument hasn't stepped up. I have been fair and answered all thoughtful contest. I don't think a lot of people know the era and can't answer as to what went wrong.

Considering the thread is a joke there is no counter argument to be made. The fact is you have not presented a case that deserves a "counter argument" the onus is on you. I'm not holding my breath because I doubt you have the wherewithal to overcome your own agenda.

[Pointguard]

Considering the thread is a joke there is no counter argument to be made. The fact is you have not presented a case that deserves a "counter argument" the onus is on you. I'm not holding my breath because I doubt you have the wherewithal to overcome your own agenda.

Ok who got the FRANCHISE contract on the Lakers during Kareem's tenure? Was the franchise convinced of a player to carry them, before the above player came and was five years deep into Kareem's prime and tenure?

Please back yourself up. That's a fair request.

[The Iron Fist]

Ok who got the FRANCHISE contract on the Lakers during Kareem's tenure? Was the franchise convinced of a player to carry them, before the above player came and was five years deep into Kareem's prime and tenure?

Please back yourself up. That's a fair request.

Make the thread, "magic, before and after he played with Kareem the GOAT".

Tell us of all the titles he won w no Cap.

[Pointguard]

Make the thread, "magic, before and after he played with Kareem the GOAT".

Tell us of all the titles he won w no Cap.

Why??? You're telling me Kareem got the franchise contract??? And that Magic didn't?