Wilt Chamberlain's Faults and Weaknesses

[millwad]

Oh, and they WON a dominating world title, with Chamberlain destroying Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond in that post-season run.

He FINALLY has a roster EQUAL to Russell's (but not nearly as DEEP), and the result? A title for the ages.

How did the Sixers do before and after Wilt BTW?

Dierking had the series of his life vs Wilt, he averaged 17.5 points and 13 rebounds on Wilt and he played for a 39 win team.

Russell was 32 years old and his teammates were worse than Chamberlain's, no doubt, and Thurmond played for a 44 win team and they still managed to win 2 games..

When was the last time a team won a NBA championship by only having to play 3 series where two of the teams didn't even manage to win 45 games..

[jlauber]

Wilt was within eyelashes of having 6-7 rings, but his garbage teammates choked so he ended up with 2.

Heavily outgunned every season...

Lost four game seven's to the eventual champion, and HOF-laden Celtics by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points. He also lost 4-2 in the '60 ECF's with what had been a LAST PLACE roster, to a 59-16 Celtic team. And he also lost to the Celtic team that had an 8-2 edge in HOFers in the '64 Finals.

BTW, he outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Russell in EVERY one of them...some by HUGE margins.

[SourPatchKids]

And poor Wilt had no help in '72 either..

After all, Wilt had only following guys in the playoffs who carried the team on the offensive end while Wilt went back to being a 4th option..

Wilt's teammates stats in the playoffs of '72;

Gail Goodrich - 23.8 points, 4.3 assists and 2.5 rebounds
Jerry West - 22.9 points, 8.9 assists and 4.9 rebounds
Jim McMillan - 19.1 points, 5.7 rebounds and 1.5 assists
Happy Hairston - 13.5 points, 13.1 rebounds and 2.1 assists

We hear all this nonsense from Jlauber about Wilt not having worthless teammates but then he is the same guy who a freaking ring in '72 with HOF:ers and 3 guys who averaged more than 19 points per game in the playoffs..

[millwad]

Heavily outgunned every season...

Lost four game seven's to the eventual champion, and HOF-laden Celtics by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points. He also lost 4-2 in the '60 ECF's with what had been a LAST PLACE roster, to a 59-16 Celtic team. And he also lost to the Celtic team that had an 8-2 edge in HOFers in the '64 Finals.

BTW, he outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Russell in EVERY one of them...some by HUGE margins.

Which only proves that empty stats is not enough, it's not a surprise that Wilt actually won when he wasn't putting up his prime stat numbers.

He won while he was a tied 2nd option in '67 and a fourth option in '72, it says it all.

[ThunderStruk022]

The "Wilt-bashers"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHJuifYlbY

Wait, are there really threads where people proved he was getting information from Youtube comments and Yahoo answers?

I knew he had inexplicably done a complete 180 on his Wilt views but hadn't seen that other stuff.

[swi7ch]

His weakness is he scored 100 pts. He should have stopped at 80 because according to ISH, 81 pts is better than 100 pts. So going by that logic, 80 is better than 81.

[millwad]

Wait, are there really threads where people proved he was getting information from Youtube comments and Yahoo answers?

I knew he had inexplicably done a complete 180 on his Wilt views but hadn't seen that other stuff.

Yeah, once he "wrote" a post about all the tall players Wilt faced and when I corrected him about all the mistakes the list had he told us that he got it from a Yahoo-forum comment. The list mentioned players Wilt never faced, guy's who still were in college, guys who never played in the NBA and ABA guys who never played in the NBA while Wilt played in the league.

And once he used CavaliersFTW's mistyped comment as a source about Wilt blocking 20 skyhooks. It was so embarrassing and I still have the PM from CavaliersFTW in my inbox where he totally bashed Jlauber for being such a clown for using his mistyped youtube-comment as source, but I won't post it because CavaliersFTW is a good guy.

Although if you ask him I'm sure he'll tell the exact same thing as above.

[ThunderStruk022]

K.C. Jones was 7, 4 and 3 guy for his career, HOF.
Frank Ramsey's career averages are 13 and 5, and he never averaged more than 15.6 ppg, HOF
Clyde Lovellette averaged 6 and 2 while with Russell's Celtics, HOF
Arnie Risen averaged 7 and 6.5 in 2 years with the Russell. HOF

Not all the Celtics in the HOF are Havliceks, Heinsohns and Cousys.

But what does jlauber say when people point out some of Russell's teammates were undeniably HOFers only because they were apart of the 60s Celtics dynasty?

I mean a 7-4-3 career guy...how can you say that is a legit HOFer? I don't care if he had the best intangibles in the world. Or a guy with career averages of 13-5 and career high of less than 16 ppg? Sounds legit to me!

But don't you know...you aren't allowed to disparage Russell's HOF teammates. That kind of stuff only applies when talking about Wilt's HOF teammates.

[millwad]

The "Wilt-bashers"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHJuifYlbY

CavaliersFTW made that video, he got a great sense of humour, haha..
I like the guy.

[Gotterdammerung]

Love the predictable shouting match between trolls and Wilt fanboys.

Fault?
Golaith complex in which Wilt tried to prove he was a great basketball player due to reasons OTHER than his size or height or strength. In other words, he tried to shoot fadeaways for 7 years before Alex Hannum instructed him to quit shooting them because they took him out of rebounding position.

Shaq did not suffer from this complex. He took full advantage of his gifts, and overpowered every center in his path.

Weaknesses?

[LIST][*]FT shooting - it was all mental. You couldn't pass him the ball at the end of the game cuz he would get fouled and embarrass himself on the line in the clutch.
[*]Outside shooting - Wilt actually could hit 15 foot jumpers earlier in his career, but that disappeared later on.
[*]Bad hands - you couldn't throw him a bullet pass because they were often swollen, fractured, or just no damn good by the end of the season.[/LIST]

But none of them stopped him from averaging 30 and 23 per game.

[millwad]

But what does jlauber say when people point out some of Russell's teammates were undeniably HOFers only because they were apart of the 60s Celtics dynasty?

I mean a 7-4-3 career guy...how can you say that is a legit HOFer? I don't care if he had the best intangibles in the world. Or a guy with career averages of 13-5 and career high of less than 16 ppg? Sounds legit to me!

But don't you know...you aren't allowed to disparage Russell's HOF teammates. That kind of stuff only applies when talking about Wilt's HOF teammates.

He only mentions Russell having a certain amount HOF:ers and that they were more HOF:ers than what Wilt had around him. He got this fetisch around HOF:ers, he overlook who they actually are, he just says that Russell had so many more HOF:ers and that's why he won..

[ThunderStruk022]

Yeah, once he "wrote" a post about all the tall players Wilt faced and when I corrected him about all the mistakes the list had he told us that he got it from a Yahoo-forum comment. The list mentioned players Wilt never faced, guy's who still were in college, guys who never played in the NBA and ABA guys who never played in the NBA while Wilt played in the league.

And once he used CavaliersFTW's mistyped comment as a source about Wilt blocking 20 skyhooks. It was so embarrassing and I still have the PM from CavaliersFTW in my inbox where he totally bashed Jlauber for being such a clown for using his mistyped youtube-comment as source, but I won't post it because CavaliersFTW is a good guy.

Although if you ask him I'm sure he'll tell the exact same thing as above.

I've seen other credible posters call jlauber out for changing his information and/or "facts" about specifics, so I believe you. I think he's figured out if he hides small subtle changes after being proven wrong behind a massive wall of text and random capitalized words, most posters won't catch it.

[ThunderStruk022]

He only mentions Russell having a certain amount HOF:ers and that they were more HOF:ers than what Wilt had around him. He got this fetisch around HOF:ers, he overlook who they actually are, he just says that Russell had so many more HOF:ers and that's why he won..

Well sure, that, and Russell was just a better winner than Wilt and understood team and winning basketball better than Wilt.

But there's the HOF teammates thing too...I guess.

[jlauber]

Dierking had the series of his life vs Wilt, he averaged 17.5 points and 13 rebounds on Wilt and he played for a 39 win team.

Russell was 32 years old and his teammates were worse than Chamberlain's, no doubt, and Thurmond played for a 44 win team and they still managed to win 2 games..

Yep. Dierking held Chamberlain to a 28 ppg, 27 rpg, 11 apg, .612 series in which Wilt put up a 41 point game...which was the Sixers HIGH BTW.

Russell's teammates worse than Wilt's? A Prime Havlicek? Who averaged 27.4 ppg that post-season? Sam Jones? Who averaged 26.7 ppg in the playoffs? Then players like Bailey Howell who had averaged 20 ppg on .512 shooting in the regular season. Larry Siegfried and his 14 ppg. Sanders, who was premier defender, and had a 10 ppg season. KC Jones, who was considered among the best defenders of his era. Don Nelson, Wayne Embry, Jim Barnett...all quality players. All-in-all...a 60-21 team.

The Warriors? HOFers Thurmond and Barry, and in their greatest seasons. Then add players like Mullins and Hetzel, who would both become 20+ scorers within a couple of seasons (and 19 and 18 scorers the very next season), as well as veteran Tom Meschery and PG Clyde Lee, who was among the best rebounders in the league per minute played.

BTW, that LOADED Warrior team went 44-37 that season. Interesting that Chamberlain, with Meschery as his second best player, and rookie part-timer Thurmond, and a cast of clowns, went 48-32 in the '64 season.

[ThunderStruk022]

Yep. Dierking held Chamberlain to a 28 ppg, 27 rpg, 11 apg, .612 series in which Wilt put up a 41 point game...which was the Sixers HIGH BTW.

Russell's teammates worse than Wilt's? A Prime Havlicek? Who averaged 27.4 ppg that post-season? Sam Jones? Who averaged 26.7 ppg in the playoffs? Then players like Bailey Howell who had averaged 20 ppg on .512 shooting in the regular season. Larry Siegfried and his 14 ppg. Sanders, who was premier defender, and had a 10 ppg season. KC Jones, who was considered among the best defenders of his era. Don Nelson, Wayne Embry, Jim Barnett...all quality players. All-in-all...a 60-21 team.

The Warriors? HOFers Thurmond and Barry, and in their greatest seasons. Then add players like Mullins and Hetzel, who would both become 20+ scorers within a couple of seasons (and 19 and 18 scorers the very next season), as well as veteran Tom Meschery and PG Clyde Lee, who was among the best rebounders in the league per minute played.

BTW, that LOADED Warrior team went 44-37 that season. Interesting that Chamberlain, with Meschery as his second best player, and rookie part-timer Thurmond, and a cast of clowns, went 48-32 in the '64 season.

So it's ok to say that kind of stuff about the players Wilt went against, but when talking about Wilt's HOF teammates, it's only the "here and now" that mattered?