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College superstar
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by BlackVVaves
My only question with Malone is, was his greatness more of a product of his individual ability, or his point guard Stockton.
It's difficult to answer that question properly as it is obvious from the list great players need great teammates to be even considered near the top of such a list. Just look at it - Kareem played with Magic. West played with Wilt. Kobe played with Shaq. These players won the bulk of their titles with another top 14 player of all time. That can't be a coincidence, which is what makes these lists so difficult to argue - everyone has their conceptions of players in their heads, but you have to consider records and accomplishments and the like. If LeBron James had been drafted by the Timberwolves, how many titles does he win with KG 2003-2012? 4 or 5, right? Where would that put him? Where would that put Garnett? Is it fair in these lists that Malone had Stockton, when Garnett's second best player until his 13th season was Sam Cassell?
Seems that you need to be put into a great position to be considered truly great.
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Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Doctor J if we're talking basketball David Robinson if it's just nba.
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BostonCeltics
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
You can put any top PF at this spot from Garnett, Barkley, Dirk, Malone, and Pettit.
To early for Dirk
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Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by BlackWhiteGreen
It's difficult to answer that question properly as it is obvious from the list great players need great teammates to be even considered near the top of such a list. Just look at it - Kareem played with Magic. West played with Wilt. Kobe played with Shaq. These players won the bulk of their titles with another top 14 player of all time. That can't be a coincidence, which is what makes these lists so difficult to argue - everyone has their conceptions of players in their heads, but you have to consider records and accomplishments and the like. If LeBron James had been drafted by the Timberwolves, how many titles does he win with KG 2003-2012? 4 or 5, right? Where would that put him? Where would that put Garnett? Is it fair in these lists that Malone had Stockton, when Garnett's second best player until his 13th season was Sam Cassell?
Seems that you need to be put into a great position to be considered truly great.
I think you misunderstood the context of my question. In terms of performance, not achievement in the sense of championships. Let me explain...
You brought up some of best tandems the NBA has ever seen. However, with each of them, it was clear and apparent one way or another what the level and quality of each individual's play was.
We saw Kareem dominate the league before Magic, collecting 5 MVPs and a championship. We saw Magic dominate the league with a far-past-his-prime Kareem, collecting 3 MVPs, and getting to the NBA Finals without Kareem.
We saw (heard, and read) how Wilt dominated the league individually, without Jerry West. We also saw (heard and read) West exhibit elite "clutchness," and elevate his game to a whole other level in the postseason as a guard.
We saw Shaq dominate the league in 2000 with a far-before-his-prime Kobe at his side. We also saw him destroy in the Finals from 2000-2002, and put on a MVP performance throughout the 2004-2005 regular season. Conversely, we saw Kobe dominate the perimeter alongside Shaq in 2001, 2002, and 2003, particularly in the second and third rounds of the postseason in 2001 and 2002. We've also seen Kobe dominate the league without Shaq from 2006-2010, collecting a MVP and two titles.
We all know what each of those players were capable of sans their partner in dominance. But, with Malone, it's truly unclear. As a player whose bread and butter was the pick and roll, which was executed with a top 3 point guard of All Time, the question hovers what Malone would have or could have done with Stockton feeding the ball. My question is more about what his individual production would have been, not how successful his team would have been.
I believe Malone and Stockton relied on each other more than any of the tandems you mentioned.
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Very good NBA starter
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Sir Charles Barkley:
Top 10 All Time EFFICIENCY
Top 10 All Time PLAYER EFFICIENCY RATING (Season)
Top 9 All Time PLAYER EFFICIENCY RATING (Play-Offs)
Top 8 All Time WIN SHARES Per 48 Min
Top 5 All Time In PLUS/MINUS (+/-)
Top 4 All Time SHOT MADE/MISSED DIFERENTIAL
Get Real People...
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Bitch Hands
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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College superstar
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by BlackVVaves
I think you misunderstood the context of my question. In terms of performance, not achievement in the sense of championships. Let me explain...
You brought up some of best tandems the NBA has ever seen. However, with each of them, it was clear and apparent one way or another what the level and quality of each individual's play was.
We saw Kareem dominate the league before Magic, collecting 5 MVPs and a championship. We saw Magic dominate the league with a far-past-his-prime Kareem, collecting 3 MVPs, and getting to the NBA Finals without Kareem.
We saw (heard, and read) how Wilt dominated the league individually, without Jerry West. We also saw (heard and read) West exhibit elite "clutchness," and elevate his game to a whole other level in the postseason as a guard.
We saw Shaq dominate the league in 2000 with a far-before-his-prime Kobe at his side. We also saw him destroy in the Finals from 2000-2002, and put on a MVP performance throughout the 2004-2005 regular season. Conversely, we saw Kobe dominate the perimeter alongside Shaq in 2001, 2002, and 2003, particularly in the second and third rounds of the postseason in 2001 and 2002. We've also seen Kobe dominate the league without Shaq from 2006-2010, collecting a MVP and two titles.
We all know what each of those players were capable of sans their partner in dominance. But, with Malone, it's truly unclear. As a player whose bread and butter was the pick and roll, which was executed with a top 3 point guard of All Time, the question hovers what Malone would have or could have done with Stockton feeding the ball. My question is more about what his individual production would have been, not how successful his team would have been.
I believe Malone and Stockton relied on each other more than any of the tandems you mentioned.
Perhaps I went off on a tangent more than I'd like to have on that question. It is, in reality, impossible to say what Stockton was without Malone and vice-versa. You could also say the same about post-Shaq Kobe, would he have been the force that he was had he not been given the chance to play with Shaq? No one knows what Bird would be without McHale and Parish, or how Ewing would be remembered had he played with Drexler.
It is both the beauty of, and the infuriating limitation of sports.
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Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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In GawdBe We Trust
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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5-time NBA All-Star
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Baylor
38/19/5 one year there
Dr J before Dr J
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Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Dr j ( I don't care if it says nba only. The man was a proffessional ball player and dominated both leagues)
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Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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NBA sixth man of the year
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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Not airballing my layups anymore
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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Why so Serious?
Re: #15 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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