Who Is the Player From the 90s Thats Gets the Most Overrated Now

[pauk]

None i can think of really. As far as Reggie goes, he is not overrated... more like very popular (for a big reason), his character, shooting, mental fortitude/intangibles and big moments (and longevity & consistency in all of that) made it very hard for him to not be.

[StateOfMind12]

Stockton was not a choker. He was just not assertive enough. People blame Lebron all the time for not being assertive and not wanting to take the last shot, Stockton was just like that, more so actually.

[PJR]

Based off some of 97 Bulls post/threads over the last couple years or so, PIPPEN. Without, question.

[RRR3]

Bad examples. Both Shaq and Jordan especially Jordan, were great defenders as well as scorers.

Neither Artest nor Rodman are considered great offesively or even good. A better example would be Rodman and Anthony. Or Mutombo and Rik Smits.

Bird making the all defense second team was more political than merit. The fact that his coach chose to hide him on defnse by putting Mchale or Maxwell on the opposiions best scoring forward says a lot about what his coaches thought about his defense.


Steals has never been an indication of how effective a players defense is.

Thes are elementary arguments bro. You're better than this.


And what makes them better rebounders than Pippen?

Artest was a good offensive player once. Good for 15-20 PPG.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Stockton practically beat the Bulls in Game 4 of the 97 Finals with clutch play near the end. The pass to Malone just over MJ's stretched arms is the most famous of the plays but he made several other clutch plays just before that. A key steal, a key rebound, the aforementioned pass and a couple of shots down the stretch to pull out the W. Without Stockton, the Jazz lose and fall to 1-3 easily.

The next year, Stockton hit the three just before MJ's infamous shot-steal-shot sequence that secured the Bulls 6th championship.

Stockton was clutch. He's the last guy on the Jazz I would have chosen to take a game winning shot against my team.

Here's another instance of Stockton taking over a game against the Bulls --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaQ4feb4MGk#t=1h39m48s

Down 7 points with 40 secs to do, Stockton hits a big three, steals the ball from MJ and eventually hits the game winner.

Thanks for the link

[BoutPractice]

RRR3 > You're right, Artest used to be a legit two-way star in his prime.
His offense wasn't the most eye pleasing for a swingman but it was effective.

[andgar923]

That`s What the Media Implanted in Your Brain During the 90s..(Its Ok I Know Many Of You Guys from the Day)...

As If Jordan Was Alone? When? Barkley was MORE ALONE from 87-92. Hakeem Was MORE ALONE from 87-95. David Robinson was MORE ALONE from 89-96. etc of Other Superstars had it More Difficult.

The Bulls Began to Win When Pippen became a Top 10 Player in the League Which He Was from 91-98.

MJ Always Had a Great Team Built For Him after 87 and THEE BEST COACH OF ALL TIME in Phil Jackson.

When The Supposed "Make Others Better MVP" Left in 93-94. This Happened to the Bulls Regarding PippeN:

- 22. PPG / 49.1% FG/ 8.7 RPG/ 5.2 APG/ 2.9 SPG
- Two Wins LESS than The Year Before (55 Wins to 57 Prior)
- All of the Bulls Teamates Including Himself Shot a Higher FG%
- Pippen Top 4 in PER...And Top 7 PER The Next Year.
- Only SF to the Lead the League in Defensive Rating For a Season in NBA History
- 2nd Leader in Steals in 93-94 and the 1st League Leader In Steals in 94-95

Basically...Jordan Played With a Top 4-7 Best Player in the NBA for a Decade

Pippen Was a Better Defender than Jordan...He Could Guard 1-4...A More Versatile Defender. Period!

Jordan Was NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE BEST TEAM PLAYER OF ALL TIME...The Best Team Players Usually Have Uncommonly Skills for Their Positions and tHEY Transcend Positional Roles such as: Magic, Bird, Barkley, Hakeem, Pippen, Hill (prior to injuries) Lebron...To List some Examples.

Jordan Was the BEST INDIVIDUAL PLAYER of All Time. Il give you that.

And so your agenda finally reveals itself.

You don't fool anybody dude, we all know what your agenda is.

Like many of us have mentioned before, Pippen was GREAT a hall of fame player. One of the most versatile players of all time, one of the greatest defenders of all time. But he is NOT the elite player you are trying to make him out to be on the same plateau of MJ, Bird, Chuck, Wilt, Magic, Kobe, Bron, West, etc.etc.

He does many things good, but we are dealing about the entire package.

There's certain aspects that Magic aint great at, certain things that Bird simply can't do, Bron has been criticized for most of his career for lacking certain things, but even then Pippen aint on their level when we consider the entire package.

If Pippen gets drafted by the Sonics, he never has to play MJ every day, he never has MJ to mentally prepare him, he doesn't get to understand how to focus and challenge yourself, he was WEAK. And he remained WEAK mentally even tho his skills had developed. So even if he had some of the skills it takes more than that to survive in the league let alone become a ***@n legend.

Do people seriously think he develops into the defensive player he became if he doesn't have to guard the league's leading scorer? the all time career PPG every day in practice? Do people think he develops his killer instinct and toughness by playing with Robinson, Drexler, Mitch, etc.etc.?

Again….. you and others love to look at the Pippen that became, and not consider the steps it took to be that Pippen. There was a process with Pip it wasn't like he showed up and was this same player since day 1. Charles, MJ, Magic, Bird, and many others were already great, we saw what they could do since their rookie seasons…. Pip was trying to get minutes…. see the difference?

[WillyJakk]

Andgar, that's pretty faulty logic dude.

"What if"?

The point is Pippen DID develop under those conditions, he came along way from the young skinny guy w/ no heart getting gripped up and smacked by Oakley all w/ a smile on his face.

Pip was a legit MVP and arguably the best player in the NBA in '94 when Jordan left, immature when Jackson drew up the last play for Kukoc vs the Knicks in the PO's but he had a point to react that way, it just looked worse when Toni made the shot but bottomline is, he helped carry Mike to those last 3 titles as much as Mike carried him.

"What if"? What if Bird was never drafted while STILL IN COLLEGE getting funneled to the Celtics, what would he have become w/ out those HoF'ers? Does he go onto be the "Legend"? What is Magic w/ out the Lakers? Etc etc?

Horrible post for a dude w/ all those stars, Ed McMahon from Star Search would be disappointed in you.

[97 bulls]

[QUOTE=andgar923]And so your agenda finally reveals itself.

You don't fool anybody dude, we all know what your agenda is.

Like many of us have mentioned before, Pippen was GREAT a hall of fame player. One of the most versatile players of all time, one of the greatest defenders of all time. But he is NOT the elite player you are trying to make him out to be on the same plateau of MJ, Bird, Chuck, Wilt, Magic, Kobe, Bron, West, etc.etc.

He does many things good, but we are dealing about the entire package.

There's certain aspects that Magic aint great at, certain things that Bird simply can't do, Bron has been criticized for most of his career for lacking certain things, but even then Pippen aint on their level when we consider the entire package.

If Pippen gets drafted by the Sonics, he never has to play MJ every day, he never has MJ to mentally prepare him, he doesn't get to understand how to focus and challenge yourself, he was WEAK. And he remained WEAK mentally even tho his skills had developed. So even if he had some of the skills it takes more than that to survive in the league let alone become a ***@n legend.

Do people seriously think he develops into the defensive player he became if he doesn't have to guard the league's leading scorer? the all time career PPG every day in practice? Do people think he develops his killer instinct and toughness by playing with Robinson, Drexler, Mitch, etc.etc.?

Again

[DatAsh]

Andgar, that's pretty faulty logic dude.

"What if"?

The point is Pippen DID develop under those conditions, he came along way from the young skinny guy w/ no heart getting gripped up and smacked by Oakley all w/ a smile on his face.

Pip was a legit MVP and arguably the best player in the NBA in '94 when Jordan left, immature when Jackson drew up the last play for Kukoc vs the Knicks in the PO's but he had a point to react that way, it just looked worse when Toni made the shot but bottomline is, he helped carry Mike to those last 3 titles as much as Mike carried him.

"What if"? What if Bird was never drafted while STILL IN COLLEGE getting funneled to the Celtics, what would he have become w/ out those HoF'ers? Does he go onto be the "Legend"? What is Magic w/ out the Lakers? Etc etc?

Horrible post for a dude w/ all those stars, Ed McMahon from Star Search would be disappointed in you.

Agree with everything except the fact that Pippen was arguably the best player in 94. No way Pippen was better than a Peak Olajuwon, or even close for that matter.

[Optimus Prime]

I'd reckon most of the kids posting in here weren't even old enough to watch basketball in the 90s but they will surely throw some great players under the bus to further their agenda.

[D.J.]

Just to sum up the last couple of pages:


-Reggie Miller was overrated. Those who closely followed the NBA in the '90s know him for what he was. A very clutch player who could shoot the lights out and do so efficiently. He wasn't a great defender(though he was scrappy), couldn't post up, and couldn't lock anyone down. He also lucked out playing on very good Pacers teams. Though he didn't win a ring, he reached the ECF 6 times(losing in game 7 in 3 of them) and reached the Finals once. Mitch Richmond was a more dominant and complete player, but had the unfortunate luck of playing on shitty teams.

-John Stockton is rated right where he should be. He was too passive and didn't take over when Malone wasn't getting the job done. The difference is Stockton wasn't the alpha dog on his team. That was Malone. And Stockton > Nash.

-Scottie Pippen is the GOAT perimeter defender. His 1993-94 season was one of the best seasons I've ever seen from someone at the SF position. It's a miracle that team won 55 games. As for Jordan, he certainly made Pippen a better player. But, neither win titles without the other. Was Pippen the best player in the league in '94? No. Was he a legit MVP? Without question.

[Mr Exlax]

Scottie Pippen is the GOAT perimeter defender. His 1993-94 season was one of the best seasons I've ever seen from someone at the SF position. It's a miracle that team won 55 games. As for Jordan, he certainly made Pippen a better player. But, neither win titles without the other. Was Pippen the best player in the league in '94? No. Was he a legit MVP? Without question.

It feels good to see my guy finally getting some kinda props on this site.

[AlphaWolf24]

And so your agenda finally reveals itself.

You don't fool anybody dude, we all know what your agenda is.

Like many of us have mentioned before, Pippen was GREAT a hall of fame player. One of the most versatile players of all time, one of the greatest defenders of all time. But he is NOT the elite player you are trying to make him out to be on the same plateau of MJ, Bird, Chuck, Wilt, Magic, Kobe, Bron, West, etc.etc.

He does many things good, but we are dealing about the entire package.

There's certain aspects that Magic aint great at, certain things that Bird simply can't do, Bron has been criticized for most of his career for lacking certain things, but even then Pippen aint on their level when we consider the entire package.

If Pippen gets drafted by the Sonics, he never has to play MJ every day, he never has MJ to mentally prepare him, he doesn't get to understand how to focus and challenge yourself, he was WEAK. And he remained WEAK mentally even tho his skills had developed. So even if he had some of the skills it takes more than that to survive in the league let alone become a ***@n legend.

Do people seriously think he develops into the defensive player he became if he doesn't have to guard the league's leading scorer? the all time career PPG every day in practice? Do people think he develops his killer instinct and toughness by playing with Robinson, Drexler, Mitch, etc.etc.?

Again….. you and others love to look at the Pippen that became, and not consider the steps it took to be that Pippen. There was a process with Pip it wasn't like he showed up and was this same player since day 1. Charles, MJ, Magic, Bird, and many others were already great, we saw what they could do since their rookie seasons…. Pip was trying to get minutes…. see the difference?

wich IMO Pippen's real story is much more remarkable then Jordan's ( media made BS)

- Pippen was basically a walk on in college who became a NBA Legend.

- Pippen grew up not bieng a star....but rather a small quiet / shy unasuming player..who walked on as a towel boy

- after a growth spurt and a chance he became a NBA Lottery pick!!! in just a couple years.( to me that shows a much more mental fortitude then just having people coddle your every move your whole career....MJ)

- when most players complain and whine Pippen early in his career basically did all the dirty work and never complained. ( I know after MJ left he finally was teh star of the team...and probably felt that it was finally his time to "take the last shot"...and was deeply hurt when Kukoc got the ball....but after all that he kept playing great when most players would have crumpled)

- I think both MJ and Pippen made each other better players...Once again...Pippen was a top 5 player in the 90's....he was just as athletic if not more then Jordan. Pippen was one of the greatest players of alltime....and affected the win/loss column more then any player on the Bull's...

severly UNDERRATED in the 90's...although as time has gone bye...his reputation has surprisingly grown...he gets much more respect in the basketball community then he used to.


___________________________________________

- and on the other hand....Michael Jordan has to be the most overrated player of the 90's.

- In the sense that he made "everyone better"...History has shown that out of all the past greats...Michael Jordan has the elast affect on making his teams better..

- His teams actually improved without him...FG% wise and defensively.

- Pippen, Grant , BJ and Cartwright all had thier best seasons without Jordan.

- Compared to other alltime greats ( Magic , Bird , Kobe , Duncan , Russell etc.) Michael Jordan has the least affect on his teams.

- replace Magic with a CBA player and only drop 2 games from the year before ( over a 82 game season!).....think again.

[WillyJakk]

Agree with everything except the fact that Pippen was arguably the best player in 94. No way Pippen was better than a Peak Olajuwon, or even close for that matter.

Not even gonna argue/ debate w/ you guys, I know what the hell I saw:

Pippen 28 VS Denver
Pip 25/9/9/6 VS Nets
Pip 39/10/9/6 VS Hawks

Pippen was arguably the best NBA player in 1994 and I'm still mad that Phil chose Toni over Pip in that situation considering Pippen put that team on his back the whole season, then in the PO's goes to someone else. The play worked but still...