Odom: Clips are deeper than championship Lakers

[kennethgriffin]

Yea I agree with you. Griffey and his stanhood logic certainly takes facts and warps them for his own Kobe-riden agenda.

Like everything in this world, you must always observe the context surrounding a situation, to effectively adhere to the truth. In this case, it's not to take away anything from Kobe, as he was brilliant overall in those years, but to prevent the misconception that stans would like perpetuate, which is that Kobe had ZERO help and is a god among men.

who said kobe had zero help? but you did get one thing right..he is a god among men


i just said kobe had one of the 4 or 5 worst supporting casts in championship history.. then listed all the teams LA beat and every single one seemingly had more total past+current allstars playing at a high level

all he needed was a good 2nd option ( not great ) but good

and an average PG, SF and C with a crap bench other than a solid never been allstar 6th man in odom

[d.bball.guy]

He's too fat that he occupies 2 roster spots.

[KG215]

who said kobe had zero help? but you did get one thing right..he is a god among men


i just said kobe had one of the 4 or 5 worst supporting casts in championship history.. then listed all the teams LA beat and every single one seemingly had more total past+current allstars playing at a high level

all he needed was a good 2nd option ( not great ) but good

and an average PG, SF and C with a crap bench other than a solid never been allstar 6th man in odom

I'd go through those teams you listed and their players one by one and pick apart another one of your flawed arguments, but it's not worth my time. You'll find something else and, like BlackVVaves says, you'll warp information to make it look like factual inarguable information in order to prop Kobe up.

I like how in 2009 Artest was in his prime then, all of a sudden, in 2010 he was the worst 3P shooter in the NBA and a borderline scrub. If you can't see how ignorant 99.9% of your arguments are, then you need help or just need to take a vacation from message boards.

[SpecialQue]

I'm getting tired of people downplaying Gasol in those championship runs. If those back to back titles were due primarily to Kobe, then the following second-round knock outs also land squarely on Kobe's shoulders.

Kobe's the best player on the team, not a single person's denying that. However, there's absolutely no reason to downplay the undeniable importance of Gasol on those teams.

[UtahJazzFan88]

He's probably right, Clippers ARE deeper, but the Lakers have a better starting 5 by far.

[BlackVVaves]

I'm getting tired of people downplaying Gasol in those championship runs. If those back to back titles were due primarily to Kobe, then the following second-round knock outs also land squarely on Kobe's shoulders.

Kobe's the best player on the team, not a single person's denying that. However, there's absolutely no reason to downplay the undeniable importance of Gasol on those teams.

Hence the difference between a somewhat objective Lakers fan, and a spawn of Kobe stanhood.

[Clippersfan86]

He's probably right, Clippers ARE deeper, but the Lakers have a better starting 5 by far.

By far is a very strong statement. I'd say Clippers still have a top 5 starting 5 in the NBA.... and if Lakers are first the gap isn't big. Let's see how the two teams mesh and Clippers young players develop before making black and white claims. The same way I think that the Clippers depth advantage is being overstated here, I think the Lakers starting 5 advantage is being overstated.

[KG215]

I'm getting tired of people downplaying Gasol in those championship runs. If those back to back titles were due primarily to Kobe, then the following second-round knock outs also land squarely on Kobe's shoulders.

Kobe's the best player on the team, not a single person's denying that. However, there's absolutely no reason to downplay the undeniable importance of Gasol on those teams.

Thank you. And that's the difference between the Lakers and the other contenders or pseudo-contenders in '09 and '10. Kobe was the best or second best player in the league (I know some would argue he might've been 3rd after LeBron and Wade in '09) and Gasol was a top 10-12 player. Kobe's "only one other All-Star teammate" was a top 10-12 player while the only other All-Star for the other contenders weren't even top 25 players probably. Not sure where you'd rank Mo Williams, Chauncey Billups, Jameer Nelson, Hedo Turkoglu, etc.

How about this. After the Lakers traded for Gasol, they went 15-4 including a 10 game win streak and 11-1 start in the first 12 games. Then Gasol misses nine games and the Lakers go 5-4. He comes back for the final nine games of the season, and they go 7-2. Overall, with Gasol, the Lakers went 22-6, and 5-4 without Gasol to finish the regular season.

I'm not saying Kobe wasn't the best player on the team. He clearly was. But Griff and other Kobe stans (not Lakers fans) trying to downplay Gasol's significance is getting as old as people trying to say Gasol was the best player on those championships teams.

[kennethgriffin]

Hence the difference between a somewhat objective Lakers fan, and a spawn of Kobe stanhood.

2012 - is pau better than wade or bosh? no
2011 - is pau better than terry? yes
2008 - is pau better than KG or allen? no
2007 - is pau better than duncan or parker or ginobili ? no
2006 - is pau better than shaq ? no
2005 - is pau better than parker or ginobili? no
2004 - is pau better than wallace? arguable
2003 - is pau better than parker? a young parker.. probably
2002 - is pau better than kobe? no
2001 - is pau better than kobe? no
2000 - is pau better than kobe? no
1999 - is pau better than robinson? no
1998 - is pau better than pippen or rodman? no
1997 - is pau better than pippen or rodman? no
1996 - is pau better than pippen or rodman? no
1995 - is pau better than drexler? no
1994 - is pau better than maxwell? yes
1993 - is pau better than pippen? no
1992 - is pau better than pippen? no
1991 - is pau better than pippen? no
1990 - is pau better than isaih or dumars? no
1989 - is pau better than isaih or dumars? no
1988 - is pau better than kareem or worthy? no
1987 - is pau better than kareem or worthy? no
1986 - is pau better than mchale or parish? no
1985 - is pau better than kareem or worthy? no
1984 - is pau better than mchale or parish? no
1983 - is pau better than erving? no
1982 - is pau better than wilkes or magic? no
1981 - is pau better than parish or maxwell? no
1980 - is pau better than wilkes or magic? no



i can go on and on and on till the beginning of the nba.. 99% of the time there was a better 2nd best player than pau on a championship team

wilt to west/goodrich

russell to cousy, havlicek and more

its never ending

[KG215]

2012 - is pau better than wade or bosh? no
2011 - is pau better than terry? yes
2008 - is pau better than KG or allen? no
2007 - is pau better than duncan or parker or ginobili ? no
2006 - is pau better than shaq ? no
2005 - is pau better than parker or ginobili? no
2004 - is pau better than wallace? arguable
2003 - is pau better than parker? a young parker.. probably
2002 - is pau better than kobe? no
2001 - is pau better than kobe? no
2000 - is pau better than kobe? no
1999 - is pau better than robinson? no
1998 - is pau better than pippen or rodman? no
1997 - is pau better than pippen or rodman? no
1996 - is pau better than pippen or rodman? no
1995 - is pau better than drexler? no
1994 - is pau better than maxwell? yes
1993 - is pau better than pippen? no
1992 - is pau better than pippen? no
1991 - is pau better than pippen? no
1990 - is pau better than isaih or dumars? no
1989 - is pau better than isaih or dumars? no
1988 - is pau better than kareem or worthy? no
1987 - is pau better than kareem or worthy? no
1986 - is pau better than mchale or parish? no
1985 - is pau better than kareem or worthy? no
1984 - is pau better than mchale or parish? no
1983 - is pau better than erving? no
1982 - is pau better than wilkes or magic? no
1981 - is pau better than parish or maxwell? no
1980 - is pau better than wilkes or magic? no



i can go on and on and on till the beginning of the nba.. 99% of the time there was a better 2nd best player than pau on a championship team

wilt to west/goodrich

russell to cousy, havlicek and more

its never ending

You're still completely ignoring the fact that Pau was the best #2 option in '09 and '10. How many of those teams you listed did the 2009 and 2010 Lakers have to beat to win a championship? Stop comparing Kobe's championship teams in '09 and '10 to other championship teams to make it seem like he went through a more difficult path than they did to win it all.

Instead, look at the 2009 and 2010 seasons on their own. Entering the playoffs, what team in the West was considered better than the Lakers. Other than the Cavs, what team in the East was considered as good or better than the Lakers? Same thing in 2010. What team in the West was considered better? And, once again, only the Cavs were probably considered bigger favorites in the entire league but, the 1-2 punch of Kobe and Gasol was >>>>> than LeBron and Mo Williams.

[Heavincent]

I agree and, if you put those Lakers teams up against the teams you mentioned, there's a very good chance they don't win a championship. Griff and other Kobe stans like to make it seem like Kobe overcame some insurmountable odds to win it all in '09 and '10 when they were the favorites in every playoff series aside from MAYBE the 2010 Finals. And if they weren't the favorites against Boston in '10, they might've been very slight underdogs.

The Celtics in '10 were a very good team but, for a team that was already considered old and past their prime in 2008, they were even older and further past their prime in 2010, and Garnett still wasn't the same player he was in 2008.

It's Griff's inability and/or refusal to not put anything into context that annoys me. This particular argument isn't much different than saying "Shaq didn't/couldn't win a championship" until he had Kobe. Which, on the surface, is factually correct if you don't put anything into context.

But Kobe was the reason as to why they were always the favorites.

[KG215]

But Kobe was the reason as to why they were always the favorites.

No, the combination of Kobe and Gasol was the reason. Kobe was the biggest reason but not the only reason. What happens if you switch Gasol and Mo Williams in '09 and '10? Or Gasol and Jameer Nelson? What about Gasol and Billups or Gasol and Parker? Are the Lakers still as big of or even the favorites?

Look, I'm not trying to downplay Kobe's significance. Look at some of the series he had (especially in 2009) and you're looking at a level of play from a SG only bettered by Michael Jordan in my opinion.

[#1SportsFan86]

I'm getting tired of people downplaying Gasol in those championship runs. If those back to back titles were due primarily to Kobe, then the following second-round knock outs also land squarely on Kobe's shoulders.

Kobe's the best player on the team, not a single person's denying that. However, there's absolutely no reason to downplay the undeniable importance of Gasol on those teams.

[BlackVVaves]

No, the combination of Kobe and Gasol was the reason. Kobe was the biggest reason but not the only reason. What happens if you switch Gasol and Mo Williams in '09 and '10? Or Gasol and Jameer Nelson? What about Gasol and Billups or Gasol and Parker? Are the Lakers still as big of or even the favorites?

Look, I'm not trying to downplay Kobe's significance. Look at some of the series he had (especially in 2009) and you're looking at a level of play from a SG only bettered by Michael Jordan in my opinion.

This, this, and this.

[LAClipsFan33]

F*ck Lamar Odom