If Michael Jordan was a Knick

[guy]

How does that relate to the discussion though? Jordan wouldn't have any problem playing with a defensive anchor, low post, rebounding type big man - which is what Wilt would most likely be playing with Jordan.

I see Wilt and Jordan coexisting beautifully - much more so than Shaq/Kobe.

No they wouldn't. Wilt would throw him over his shoulders like a mountain lion and Jordan would come to practice the next day with a bazooka and shoot a hole through him. Wilt is that egotistical and Jordan is that angry

[97 bulls]

How does that relate to the discussion though? Jordan wouldn't have any problem playing with a defensive anchor, low post, rebounding type big man - which is what Wilt would most likely be playing with Jordan.

I see Wilt and Jordan coexisting beautifully - much more so than Shaq/Kobe.

Lol why? All four players have the same mentality. They don't want anyone getting more pub than them. Or being compared to them. Shaqs comparing Howard to Brook Lopez. He couldn't stand Kobe, he couldn't stand Penny. Wilt routinely tried to poke holes in Jordans dominance. Kobes on record as saying the Lakers are still "my team". Jordan made it a point to insult just about every player he competed against. These guys are on a whole nother level when it comes to spotlight and their willingness to share it.

[97 bulls]

Actually a good point. But if you want to talk about how they're regarded, how was Kukoc regarded at 28, which is what Bosh is now? A great 6th man, probably somewhere in the #35-#50 best players in the league that was never even considered an all-star. On the other hand, Bosh is considered a top 20 player in the league, an all-star, and close to a max player. And really, the Bulls could've made those same trades for Kukoc when he was 28, and no one would've thought anything of it. You actually did make a good point thought. But still, if you want to compare how they're regarded right now, that hurts your argument.
Again, you're trying to compare Bosh and Kukoc as if their careers had the same path. Kukoc was one of the first players to come from Europe. He was a second round pick because he was under contract with the team he played for in Italy. He was regarded as the best European basketball player. That's in company with Sabonis, Petrovic, Divac etc. He joins the threepeat champion Bulls. With all players in their prime. Most knowledgeable people feel had he been in a different situation with a bigger role, he'd have a few allstar game appearances. His role with the Bulls was by design, not because that's all he could ever be.


Why in the world would someone thats 6'11 and relatively slow as an ox in comparison to other PGs and point forwards be the primary ballhandler? Thats a recipe for a disaster. And by the way, that short time with ATL you bring up they were 5-12. I don't see how that helps your point at all. And if he was in Toronto, there's no way he'd be the primary ballhandler with TJ Ford and Jose Calderon on the team.
Kukoc was a great ball handler. Did you even watch kukoc play? There's a reason he was compared to Magic Johnson.


Thats not his strength. He's better then Bosh at it, but thats not something he was elite at and would do for a playoff team for anything more then stretches. No GM would sign Kukoc to "run their team" like a PG or in the point forward fashion the way players like Hill, Pippen, and Lebron have. It wouldn't happen. Saying Kukoc was better at running a team then Bosh was is like saying Deron Williams is better at defending big men then Chris Paul. Who cares? Its not something relevant cause it would't happen that much. And its especially ridiculous to say that the Raptors would still be a 40+ win because of that, when they already had players like T.J. Ford, Jose Calderon, and Jarret Jack who would clearly still run that team.




Right, he wasn't that type of player, which also means he wasn't as good of a rebounder. Rajon Rondo could probably get 10-15 rpg if he really focused on that. So let me ask, do you think that would put him in the range of rebounders from Pau Gasol to Dwight Howard?



We were talking about both teams. Did you not read this? He deferred to Hal Greer. And by the way, when he joined the Lakers, he was coming off 3 straight MVP seasons He was still arguably the best player in the league and better then Jerry West, and was probably a top 5 player for the next few years. Just because he was past his prime doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. You're making it seem like he was what Shaq was in his last few years.

He was also a bitter old man jealous of the more credit all players of later eras received because of the globalization of the game. Thats not an issue if they are playing at the same time. And by the way, Jordan didn't break alot of Wilt's records.
once Jordan began being compare and then regarded as being better than Wilt, he made it his civic duty to question Jordans dominance.


Let me guess, you think he would be as good as Luc Longley back then? I don't disagree that he wouldn't be as successful due to that, but we're only talking about an era 8-15 years apart.

Rodman doesn't FAR more impact a game then Bosh. He does very little if anything on offense before he goes for a rebound.

If you need to start from scratch and the goal is to win as many games as possible and you need to take one or the other as your best player, you take Bosh. If you already have 1 or 2 better players then both of them though, you take Rodman. The second scenario is probably more relevant then the first scenario because you clearly aren't winning a title or going deep in the playoffs with either of them as your best player, so thats why I'd ultimately say Rodman is better.



You're backpedaling and trying to argue around what was said cause now you've realized you're wrong. Just admit you're wrong.

Wilt had no problem with Jerry West getting arguably more credit and being considered a better player. He had no problem sharing that spotlight with him. There's no reason to think he'd have that problem with Jordan, especially when he'd most likely have alot more success with him then West.

That's because by then West was probably btter.

[guy]

Again, you're trying to compare Bosh and Kukoc as if their careers had the same path. Kukoc was one of the first players to come from Europe. He was a second round pick because he was under contract with the team he played for in Italy. He was regarded as the best European basketball player. That's in company with Sabonis, Petrovic, Divac etc. He joins the threepeat champion Bulls. With all players in their prime. Most knowledgeable people feel had he been in a different situation with a bigger role, he'd have a few allstar game appearances. His role with the Bulls was by design, not because that's all he could ever be.

I don't remember if I've heard him being regarded as the best European basketball player and if it was it was definitely after Sabonis' injuries. His legacy is nowhere near that of Sabonis or Petrovic. And either way, the best European player back in the early to mid 90s means basically nothing when it comes to the NBA.

I've never heard any knowledgeable person in the media or on this board think Kukoc could've done what you're saying i.e. make a few all-star games and lead a team to the playoffs. Point these people out to me please.

There's something you don't seem to realize. Greatness shines and is evident so all this path and role bullshit you keep spewing is complete nonsense. Players like Ginobili and Harden were 6th men as well yet are clearly great players that people constantly point to that could've led teams and make all-star games, which Ginobili actually has and Harden most likely will. Roles don't hold down greatness. If a player is that great, it shows. And you seem to be the only person in the world that thinks what was actually shown is a huge contrast from what he actually is.

Kukoc was a great ball handler. Did you even watch kukoc play? There's a reason he was compared to Magic Johnson.

For his size and position, yes. He wasn't on your average PGs level like Calderon and Ford. Yes, he was called the Euro Magic. So what? That means absolutely nothing in 1992.

once Jordan began being compare and then regarded as being better than Wilt, he made it his civic duty to question Jordans dominance.

You're just looking way too much into this to back up a silly argument. You realize there's a huge difference in a setting where Wilt and Jordan would be teammates coming up together vs. a setting where Wilt's 20 years removed from his career comparing himself to new players that he is no connection with at all right?

The evidence that myself and Datash have brought up is alot more telling then the little sh*t you're bringing up because its very close to the same scenario while yours is nowhere near. Why do you keep arguing this? Does it offend you when people say Jordan could've easily won multiple titles with other great players besides Pippen?

That's because by then West was probably btter.

Seems like it was very arguable actually. In their historic 1972 season, West was 2nd in MVP voting and Wilt was 3rd in MVP voting, and then Wilt ended up winning Finals MVP. From what I've read, I've never really ever heard anyone say West was clearly better then him actually i.e. like what was the case with Magic/Kareem when it was clear Magic was better in the 2nd half of the 80s. By the way, I also forgot to point out that he was also deferring to Elgin Baylor.

[DatAsh]

Lol why? All four players have the same mentality. They don't want anyone getting more pub than them. Or being compared to them. Shaqs comparing Howard to Brook Lopez. He couldn't stand Kobe, he couldn't stand Penny. Wilt routinely tried to poke holes in Jordans dominance. Kobes on record as saying the Lakers are still "my team". Jordan made it a point to insult just about every player he competed against. These guys are on a whole nother level when it comes to spotlight and their willingness to share it.

You're missing the point. Wilt would most likely only be taking 12-14 fga per game - less than Scottie Pippen. Jordan wouldn't have anymore trouble co-existing with Wilt than he would Pippen. Wilt would be the super efficient scorer putting up ~ 24/15/5 on 68% while also being the team's best defender - by far - and Jordan would be the team's #1 option at ~ 33/6/7 on 56%.

It seems like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, but I'll just end this with saying that, if you think Wilt would have trouble deferring to Jordan offensively, you don't know enough about Wilt.