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Serious playground baller
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
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7-time NBA All-Star
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
kobe was a co-alpha dog on a 2 man team with shaq
No, he wasn't, especially in 2000.
its like kareem and magic... people give them full alpha lead dog credit. it didnt matter who won mvp on a team with more than 1 mega star dominating
No, it's not. There's far much less debate over who was the "alpha lead dog" on the 2000-2002 Lakers 3-peat teams than some of the Lakers 80s championship teams.
nobody even cares that james worthy won finals mvp. it was kareem and magic who got all the credit
Right, but James Worthy wasn't already considered the best player or close to best player on his team when he won Finals MVP. Shaq, on the other hand, was. Apples to oranges.
player of the decade awards all went to kobe for a reason
dozens of threads end the same way on ish with kobe ahead of duncan
the official vote on ISH even had kobe ahead of duncan
In fan polls, right?
And weren't you the same person who spent an entire day whining and complaining and calling the ISH vote stupid because they didn't rank Kobe as high as you thought he should be? But it's credible in this case because it fits your agenda?
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15-1
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
wow G.O.A.T
seven posts in this thread? i thought you avoid to part of such threads
who do you hate more Kareem or Kobe? SMFH
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You're welcome
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by KG215
How so if he wasn't the one leading those teams to a ring?
You mean when Duncan was older and past his prime?
Because he had to successfully adjust his playing style for the betterment of the team.
Kobe is older and past his prime too.
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In GawdBe We Trust
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
And still counting.. Kobe has a big chance to retire with 8 rings.. Nothing is impossible with our Lord Mamba.. Have faith..
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Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by G.O.A.T
No it doesn't show anything about his ability to lead as he was not the leader or best player on those teams. He shows how supremely talented he is and that at one point of his career he could keep his ego in check for the sake of winning, but that's it.
The criticism isn't based on collecting brownie points for legacy debates. That's another topic. The criticism is based on Kobe not being able to adjust his playing style for the betterment of the team based on its makeup. The fact that he has already done so successfully 3 times already is what makes the criticism comical. Who has successfully done it better than Kobe in recent memory? If you have doubts about Kobe adjusting successfully then you must have doubts about every other single player in the league.
You mean like how the Lakers got swept by Dallas and humiliated by the Thunder the last two years?
Duncan's lack of mobility and gas left in the tank, not any sort of lack of leadership is why the Spurs aren't winning titles anymore.
Losing to the eventual champions sure beats getting beat in the first round as a 1 seed.
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7-time NBA All-Star
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
Because he had to successfully adjust his playing style for the betterment of the team
How does that speak to his leadership ability in comparison to anyone? Up until that point in his career he had always and clearly been the second best player on his team. He had never been in a true leadership role. I mean, you can't be serious, right? Kobe adjusting his playing style for the betterment of the team at 21-23 years old on a team where he had always been the second best player, speaks to how great of a leader he was?
Not saying Kobe wasn't a great leader later on in his career, but surely you can find a few hundred better examples than that.
Kobe is older and past his prime too.
Duncan won his last title at 31 years old, same as Kobe. Since, the Spurs have made the WCF two times, the second round once, and lost in the first round twice. And I believe in 2009 Manu was hurt and didn't play. That's more of the reason for the Spurs "lack of playoff success" since 2007, not because of Duncan's leadership ability. On top of Duncan aging and clearly losing a few steps, his best teammates ahve gotten older, too, and can't stay healthy.
Kobe, since winning his last title at 31, has been swept and lost in five games in the second round. Clearly those teams had gone about as far as they could, so it's not really Kobe's fault or anything, but it's not like he's enjoyed a lot more playoff success than Duncan since getting older and past his prime.
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Scott Hastings Fan
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by Yao Ming's Foot
Losing to the eventual champions sure beats getting beat in the first round as a 1 seed.
Is six games still more than five and is the conference finals still later in the playoffs than the semifinals? Because that's what happened last year.
Pretending that Kobe is something he isn't or did something he didn't doesn't help his legacy, it just makes you like you're delusional.
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NBA lottery pick
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by Reverend Hoops
go cry me a river
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Not airballing my layups anymore
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
It is more like:
No player has had as much help as Kobe since Kobe has entered the NBA.
Of course, Kobe and his legion of male groupies don't like to talk about this.
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You're welcome
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
How does that speak to his leadership ability in comparison to anyone? Up until that point in his career he had always and clearly been the second best player on his team. He had never been in a true leadership role. I mean, you can't be serious, right? Kobe adjusting his playing style for the betterment of the team at 21-23 years old on a team where he had always been the second best player, speaks to how great of a leader he was?
Once again you are confusing a legacy debate with what the question being asked. Can Kobe adjust successfully? Can Kobe allow Nash to thrive? The question isn't who was the best leader as the best player on team, the question is who has had greater team success playing various roles based on the makeup of the team. Who has done it better than Kobe?
Duncan won his last title at 31 years old, same as Kobe. Since, the Spurs have made the WCF two times, the second round once, and lost in the first round twice. And I believe in 2009 Manu was hurt and didn't play. That's more of the reason for the Spurs "lack of playoff success" since 2007, not because of Duncan's leadership ability. On top of Duncan aging and clearly losing a few steps, his best teammates ahve gotten older, too, and can't stay healthy.
Kobe, since winning his last title at 31, has been swept and lost in five games in the second round. Clearly those teams had gone about as far as they could, so it's not really Kobe's fault or anything, but it's not like he's enjoyed a lot more playoff success than Duncan since getting older and past his prime.
That's the point. Kobe has led at worst just as well as Duncan yet nobody will question Duncan on his ability to adjust his playing style for the betterment of the team going forward. Its a ridiculous concept. The man was a major part of 4 championship teams. Kobe is just reminding you all that he was also except he did it one better.
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You're welcome
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by NUPE_1911
It is more like:
No player has had as much help as Kobe since Kobe has entered the NBA.
Of course, Kobe and his legion of male groupies don't like to talk about this.
Think he will finally have two all star teammates this year?
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You're welcome
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
Originally Posted by G.O.A.T
Is six games still more than five and is the conference finals still later in the playoffs than the semifinals? Because that's what happened last year.
Pretending that Kobe is something he isn't or did something he didn't doesn't help his legacy, it just makes you like you're delusional.
I wasn't referencing last year. By eventual champions I was referring to the 2011 Mavs. In 2011 the #1 seeded Spurs lost to the #8 seeded Grizzlies. You can read about it here if you need to refresh your memory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NB...phis_Grizzlies
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GIVEN NOT EARNED
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Linja Status
Re: Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."
To be fair, Kobe was probably the best player in the NBA by 2000/01. But Shaq had earned his place and had established himself as the team #1 with one of the great seasons of all-time. They won the title. Shaq is a big man, older, and clearly the league was lacking in big men at that time.
That 2000/01 season showed that Kobe was probably already the better player (and I mean that absolutely) but he wasn't the first option. The team ran thru him more, but Shaq was the clear-cut go-to guy, as a scorer and more. Kobe only averaged .2 PPG less than Shaq, and his shooting % was obviously lower so he clearly used the ball more. But it was still Shaq's team and that was fair.
Kobe was an even better player by the next year, and Shaq had already started going down. However, both had lesser regular seasons the next year. But Kobe's was an even bigger drop, even with his overall ascension as a player.
This whole alpha dog thing has gotten really stupid. But Kobe, himself, is a big reason why. Shutup already.
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