Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

He's right. Since 1996, who's won more rings than Kobe? But that's not even the point. He was responding to people who say he's selfish and he cares more about his own numbers and shooting the ball than winning. Selfish players who lead teams don't win. Look at some of the most successful superstars in NBA history. Look at most people's top 10 lists. They are full of players who were either always unselfish, or didn't start winning until they became unselfish.

[poido123]

I'm just pointing out double standards.

I don't care if you think Kobe is a better leader than Duncan. But its close either way yet nobody questions Duncan on his ability to lead.

I don't care if you think Kobe's championship teams were more stacked than other legendary player's but at worst its even and yet nobody claims Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Bird's teams were STACKED and thus their playoff success is less impressive.

I can't wait for the annual defensive team selection voting next year where everybody pretends that defensive team awards were ever based on obscure advanced stats and not based on reputations. Somehow its only Kobe in basketball history who needs to have his accolades reduced to account for that bias though.

The things Kobe gets criticized for are literally unprecedented in NBA history. The sad thing is haters don't even realize how delusional they are. I can't remember the last time I have seen a reasonable criticism of the man that would be and has been applied to everybody before him.

Insecurebe at it again. Most of his fans in this thread are disgustingly insecure and feel the need to justify every statement and thing that Kobe does.

The lengths people go to, manufacturing an argument that twists what Kobe has really acheived. Kobe has performed one of the greatest status 'smokescreens' basketball has ever seen. His achievements and success are real, but the way he got there, and the status he's placed on is very false and very misleading.

You wanted content, and you weren't sure what I bring to the table well there it is if you had of payed attention.

[KG215]

The conversation was about Kobe's teammates and you keep redirecting back to the entire team including Kobe. Kobe's supporting cast doesn't include Kobe. Pierce or Garnett's supporting cast was better than Kobe's supporting cast for those 3 years. I don't why you keep harping on age and injuries. Kobe's teammates were not spring chickens nor injury free either.

Ok, and I said a HEALTHY Celtics team was better than the Lakers those years. They weren't healthy in 2009 and I think their age (as a whole) closed the gap considerably by 2010 to draw the two teams almost dead even.

But that's never been my point. I started off by asking what teams Kobe had to play in the 2009 and 2010 Finals that were considered better than the Lakers? Take away Kobe and the best player from every team they played and compare the rest of the rosters, and the Lakers still have the best player between the two teams in Gasol other than maybe the Celtics in 2010. And even then you could probably argue Gasol was the 3rd or 4th best player in the Finals.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It was still easily one of his three most dominant statistical seasons, and his offensive game was more polished than it has ever been.

I never said last year in particular was the transcending year that formed him into that. It's the constant season by season statistical and individual domination that he has displayed over the years. Of course his playoff performance last year only aided his legacy but I am talking about his continuous individual production that has not noticeably wavered since about 2007 (the beginning of his ascent, though you could argue that 2011 was a slight hiccup).

What happened in 2011? Did Lebron suddenly become a worse player when teamed up with two all stars? What does that say about the value of unbiased statistics when its unlikely that Lebron with the Heat no matter how many titles he wins will likely not match his apparent greatness (based on unbiased stats) with the Cavaliers?

[RaininTwos]

He's right. Since 1996, who's won more rings than Kobe? But that's not even the point. He was responding to people who say he's selfish and he cares more about his own numbers and shooting the ball than winning. Selfish players who lead teams don't win. Look at some of the most successful superstars in NBA history. Look at most people's top 10 lists. They are full of players who were either always unselfish, or didn't start winning until they became unselfish.

Since 1996 /=/ his generation. That is just his draft class. Your generation can include people that came before you.

[Heavincent]

What part of my post made me seem mad at all?

I'm just impartially analyzing the lengths of Kobe's egomania and why he's acting the way he is at this stage of his career (when he is clearly declining). People's perception of Kobe doesn't anger me whatsoever, just like it doesn't bother me when people say things like Eli Manning is the best player in the NFL because he played with a great defense and won another Super Bowl (with admittedly spectacular clutch play).

Sports are reactionary, and some people are so caught up in that bubble they just let themselves float along the currents rather than stepping back and looking at the statistics and a players respective situation (I think baseball is the only sport in America that has really gotten to the perfect point of truly analyzing players impartially, but it's such a stats driven sports, for casual and hardcore fans alike).

The entire post was typical blind Kobe hatred. And no, it's not constructive or objective criticism. Not that I have a problem with it. Hate all you want.

And did you seriously compare Kobe Bryant, one of the most dominant players of all time, to Eli freaking Manning? It's not even close to the same thing.

[G-Funk]

No man in modern civilisation has been so successful and so good, yet so pathetic.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Insecurebe at it again. Most of his fans in this thread are disgustingly insecure and feel the need to justify every statement and thing that Kobe does.

The lengths people go to, manufacturing an argument that twists what Kobe has really acheived. Kobe has performed one of the greatest status 'smokescreens' basketball has ever seen. His achievements and success are real, but the way he got there, and the status he's placed on is very false and very misleading.

You wanted content, and you weren't sure what I bring to the table well there it is if you had of payed attention.

Describe with specifics how Kobe's success was aided unlike any other legendary player.

[poido123]

I'm still waiting for you to add some content to the discussion besides being a cheerleader. Do you have any facts to bring to the table on whatever the reason you are here for?

Still waiting for your response? it wouldnt matter how you responded to my post, the truth is that most people on ISH speak out of denial so Im not shocked if you respond with another statement defending Kobe, it gets boring.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Since 1996 /=/ his generation. That is just his draft class. Your generation can include people that came before you.

I know that but I'm speaking in the context of Kobe specifically. In what other ways do you define a generation in the NBA? Unless we just pick an arbitrary year to contradict Kobe's statement...

[Mr Know It All]

What happened in 2011? Did Lebron suddenly become a worse player when teamed up with two all stars? What does that say about the value of unbiased statistics when its unlikely that Lebron with the Heat no matter how many titles he wins will likely not match his apparent greatness (based on unbiased stats) with the Cavaliers?

He played on a team with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, so his statistics took a slight dip but he still led the league in PER, win shares, and win shares per 48. The Heat won 11 more games, and made it to the NBA Finals (a first round exit the year before). The year after he stats ballooned again and the Heat had more success.

I never said he would match his greatness. Dirk Nowitzki was a better player in 2006 than he was in 2011, yet he won a championship with a better built team around him. Only because of popular perception do they overvalue championships, and suddenly say "Oh well now Dirk is a top 20 player" even though he had the statistics to show that he was already in that category.

It's not about "matching" his greatness or his peak play with the Cavs, it's about continuing his statistical and individual dominance in this league for years to come. Team success is nice and will impress casual fans, but when judging an individual player I'm really only primarily interested in what they produce on the court.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The entire post was typical blind Kobe hatred. And no, it's not constructive or objective criticism. Not that I have a problem with it. Hate all you want.

And did you seriously compare Kobe Bryant, one of the most dominant players of all time, to Eli freaking Manning? It's not even close to the same thing.

High on demagogue, low on specifics and facts.

[G-Funk]

How many rings would Lebron have if he did not chase rings in Miami????

[Yao Ming's Foot]

He played on a team with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, so his statistics took a slight dip but he still led the league in PER, win shares, and win shares per 48. The Heat won 11 more games, and made it to the NBA Finals (a first round exit the year before). The year after he stats ballooned again and the Heat had more success.

I never said he would match his greatness. Dirk Nowitzki was a better player in 2006 than he was in 2011, yet he won a championship with a better built team around him. Only because of popular perception do they overvalue championships, and suddenly say "Oh well now Dirk is a top 20 player" even though he had the statistics to show that he was already in that category.

It's not about "matching" his greatness or his peak play with the Cavs, it's about continuing his statistical and individual dominance in this league for years to come. Team success is nice and will impress casual fans, but when judging an individual player I'm really only primarily interested in what they produce on the court.

Big Kevin Love fan?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Still waiting for your response? it wouldnt matter how you responded to my post, the truth is that most people on ISH speak out of denial so Im not shocked if you respond with another statement defending Kobe, it gets boring.

Describe with specifics how Kobe's success was aided unlike any other legendary player.