Kobe Bryant: "Nobody has won more championships than me in my entire generation."

[Mr Know It All]

It's ridiculous shit like this that proves your agenda against Kobe.

As for those negs, I don't care because I wasn't the one who negged you.

Top 20-25 ranges from 25-10 the way I am referring to it. Any all time lists once you get beyond top 10 (hell even top 5) are usually arbitrary anyway.

I don't know why top 20-25 is considered such an insult.

[Heavincent]

Top 20-25 ranges from 25-10 the way I am referring to it. Any all time lists once you get beyond top 10 (hell even top 5) are usually arbitrary anyway.

I don't know why top 20-25 is considered such an insult.

He's not outside of the top 10. It's obviously very subjective, but putting Kobe outside of the top 10 is extremely questionable at best. Putting him outside the top 15 is beyond ridiculous.

[Mr Know It All]

He's not outside of the top 10. It's obviously very subjective, but putting Kobe outside of the top 10 is extremely questionable at best. Putting him outside the top 15 is beyond ridiculous.

Why when there are players in that range who have had individual statistical dominance equal to or superior to Kobe? I'm not talking about ranking "career" or "legacy", I'm talking about a player throughout their career with regards to their individual production.

[swag2011]

LOL at people thinking Kobe's insecure. Nothing for him to be insecure about, he has 5 rings, and is a consensus top 10 all time player. Hate on him all you want, call him a sidekick all you want, but for him to be referred to as a sidekick and still be generally recognized as a top 10 all time player is LEGENDARY.

Now while yall analyze PER, win shares, and all that other BS to try and discredit Kobe, he's gearing up for number 6. Getting ready to hear the excuses now hahahahaha

[poido123]

Where are you Yao Ming's Foot? I answered your questions and I take it the silence is that you have nothing to say for your god? I thought so.

Hope I didnt make you cry, realising that your hero is a sham, something really hard to take for you. I know you love sucking his **** and everything.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

-His only MVP was a gifted one, one that I think was more a longevity award , moreso than the year he had which is what the award is judged on.
-The finals MVP he was handed, when Gasol was clearly the best player in the series
His overrated defense that has landed him all defensive team selections
-Riding shaq to 3 championships as the second fiddle.
-Most of his career he has had good to great players and teams around him that hidden his tendency to ball hog and chuck.
-His last two titles was during a period of a weak western conference. Only Boston could be considered a team to be good or great or real competition for the title at that time.
-ESPN and media has carried a fake image that Kobe is a great, based on how his game has similarity to the last money spinner named Jordan.

There's just a few, and Im sure there are more...

Perhaps you don't understand the difference between unsupported opinion and concrete facts.

Opinion: "Kobe's MVP was "gifted""

Fact: MVPs are commonly given high scoring/assisting players on regular season teams with high win totals. In 2008 only the Celtics and Pistons had better records and neither of them had the offensive player that matched the typical MVP profile

Opinion "Gasol was clearly the better player on more worthy of the Finals MVP"

Show me a similar case in NBA history where a player with Gasol type numbers received a Finals MVP over a player with Kobesque numbers. I highly doubt it has ever happened.

Opinion- Kobe's defense is overrated

- What evidence is there to believe that Kobe's defense is more overrated more than any other superstar player in league history?

Opinion Being second fiddle to Shaq

Who wouldn't be second fiddle to prime Shaq?

Opinion: Kobe would chuck and ball hog if not for....

What legendary scorer would not score and shoot more if hypothetically surrounded by weaker players?

Opinion: The Western conference was weak

How do those teams win loss records compare to the win loss records that other legendary players faced on their road to the Finals. The East has been garbage for the last decade. You couldn't be more off on this "fact".

Opinion: ESPN created Kobe as great as a ode to Jordan

Kobe wasn't the first next Jordan. He was just the only one to stick around collecting rings and delusional haters like they are going out of style. Show me how ESPN's treatment of Kobe is any different than any other player achieving that level of success.

[poido123]

LOL at people thinking Kobe's insecure. Nothing for him to be insecure about, he has 5 rings, and is a consensus top 10 all time player. Hate on him all you want, call him a sidekick all you want, but for him to be referred to as a sidekick and still be generally recognized as a top 10 all time player is LEGENDARY.

Now while yall analyze PER, win shares, and all that other BS to try and discredit Kobe, he's gearing up for number 6. Getting ready to hear the excuses now hahahahaha

Regurgitating what every other Kobe fanboy says. Do you go into threads and not read what other posters have said? read the part where I explain why his career and persona is fake and get back to me, cheers.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I don't really understand where you are coming from. First of all, you judge these statistics by also considering others, and when I reference PER and win shares I am referring to production on a year by year basis (I understand Chris Paul led the league in 2008, and I believe he was the best player that year).

David Robinson is currently 9th on the all time win shares list. Again, I don't really know what you are referring to...

[Mr Know It All]

Ah win shares per 48.

As I stated, its not an be all end all statistic. You have to take them in context, just like he's 9th in overall win shares. When I was referring to Lebron's statistical dominance (or guys like 08 Paul, 06/07 Dirk, 04 Garnett) I said that you must take the statistical evidence while analyzing and taking into account every variable.

The combination of PER, win shares, and win shares per 48 have routinely shown dominant seasons from great players (Jordan dominated all three categories during his prime years, Shaq during his, Kareem during his, etc.) So dismissing one advanced statistic because one player is ranked unusually high in an all time ranking is irrelevant. And it doesn't strengthen your argument whatsoever.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Ah win shares per 48.

As I stated, its not an be all end all statistic. You have to take them in context, just like he's 9th in overall win shares. When I was referring to Lebron's statistical dominance (or guys like 08 Paul, 06/07 Dirk, 04 Garnett) I said that you must take the statistical evidence while analyzing and taking into account every variable.

The combination of PER, win shares, and win shares per 48 have routinely shown dominant seasons from great players (Jordan dominated all three categories during his prime years, Shaq during his, Kareem during his, etc.) So dismissing one advanced statistic because one player is ranked unusually high in an all time ranking is irrelevant. And it doesn't strengthen your argument whatsoever.

You look at that list and think one player is unusually high.

I didn't even make an argument. I just its funny to see you try to co opt that idea that advanced statistics are what matter since they are unbiased while at the same time celebrating Lebron James hypothetical titles that will based on your own brilliant unbiased deduction never match up against his flameouts with the Cavs. Maybe you forgot to get the memo, but LeBron James fanboys ditched the stats mantra once they realized that Bosh and Wade were going to suddenly make him appear to be a worse player.

[Mr Know It All]

You look at that list and think one player is unusually high.

I didn't even make an argument. I just its funny to see you try to co opt that idea that advanced statistics are what matter since they are unbiased while at the same time celebrating Lebron James hypothetical titles that will based on your own brilliant unbiased deduction never match up against his flameouts with the Cavs. Maybe you forgot to get the memo, but LeBron James fanboys ditched the stats mantra once they realized that Bosh and Wade were going to suddenly make him appear to be a worse player.

Celebrating hypothetical titles? When did I ever do that?

I said advanced statistics and statistics in general are extremely valuable in judging player production, and ultimately player standing all time. I am no Lebron fan boy, in fact as a player I dislike many aspects about his personality and the way he presents himself on the court (some of the ridiculous flopping is absurd and unbecoming of any player, let alone one of his talent).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Celebrating hypothetical titles? When did I ever do that?

I said advanced statistics and statistics in general are extremely valuable in judging player production, and ultimately player standing all time. I am no Lebron fan boy, in fact as a player I dislike many aspects about his personality and the way he presents himself on the court (some of the ridiculous flopping is absurd and unbecoming of any player, let alone one of his talent).

"Lebron, finally equipped with the help that made moronic basketball analysts doubt him (it's a team sport, durr), is poised to make multiple Finals and probably win multiple titles (already has one)."



Its funny how Chris Bosh would be the best 2nd best teammate Kobe had on any title team but is simply part of the "help" for Lebron.

[poido123]

Perhaps you don't understand the difference between unsupported opinion and concrete facts.

Fact: MVPs are commonly given high scoring/assisting players on regular season teams with high win totals. In 2008 only the Celtics and Pistons had better records and neither of them had the offensive player that matched the typical MVP profile

This is too easy. Chris Paul and Lebron had the stats of high scoring and assisting players. This isnt true at all, Pierce in 2008, Billups in 2004, and Dumars in 1989 had average scoring outputs. You could also say Worthy and Johnson in 1987 and 1988, particularly worthy who had low assists and rebound totals.


Show me a similar case in NBA history where a player with Gasol type numbers received a Finals MVP over a player with Kobesque numbers. I highly doubt it has ever happened.

I answered this above, Paul Pierce 2008, Billups 2004, Dumars 1989, Worthy 1988, technically you could leave out MAgic in 1987 for his high assists totals.



- What evidence is there to believe that Kobe's defense is more overrated more than any other superstar player in league history?

Well the fact he has as many first all defensive team selections as GREAT defenders like Garnett, and Payton is a travesty. Further to that he has often been the second best on his OWN team, Artest was left out, while Kobe gets selected? go figure.

Who wouldn't be second fiddle to prime Shaq?

Jordan


What legendary scorer would not score and shoot more if hypothetically surrounded by weaker players?

That is of course a true statement. But Kobe has had adequate teammates to do that, yet he still shoots too many shots at an inefficient level.

How do those teams win loss records compare to the win loss records that other legendary players faced on their road to the Finals. The East has been garbage for the last decade. You couldn't be more off on this "fact".

Well we are talking about a weak era and period of basketball. Only up until last year have we seen serious teams come to the fore. ie the heat and thunder and even the Celtics and Spurs who are still right up there. The depth this year is alot better, and I give more weight to who wins a championship this season. However the superteams are pretty stacked and do cast a shadow over the success and difficulty of winning the title.



Kobe wasn't the first next Jordan. He was just the only one to stick around collecting rings and delusional haters like they are going out of style. Show me how ESPN's treatment of Kobe is any different than any other player achieving that level of success.

They do it to Lebron and they do it to Kobe. To some extent they do it for Griffin and to a lesser extent Durant, but the difference is Kobe has had an entire career that has been propped up and protected by the media.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

They do it to Lebron and they do it to Kobe. To some extent they do it for Griffin and to a lesser extent Durant, but the difference is Kobe has had an entire career that has been propped up and protected by the media.

Did you suffer from a coma from 2004-2008?

[G-Funk]

You're acting as if I think Kobe is a bad player, or even "just a good player". He's a great player, top 20-25 all time absolutely. He has had dominant and very impressive statistical seasons, there is no argument about this (although they are not as dominant as his supporters would like to push forward). But his fans and the media's insistence on him being ranked in the top 10 or top 5 is something that is flat out not backed up by his numbers or individual production.

And as for me being mad about his success in your original post quoting me, here's some wonderful neg gems I've received for posting my polite opinion on Kobe just in the past hour:

"Negged you ****ing ****"

"STFU"

And yet I am the one who is angry? Sounds like some of the people on here are as insecure as Kobe is right now.