Death Count from Socialist leaders in the 20th Century

[Nick Young]

Mao Zedong:49-78 million
Jozef Stalin: 23 million
Pol Pot: 1.7 million
Kim Il Sung: 1.6 million
Ho Chi Minh: 200,000
Fidel Castro and Che Guevera: 50,000


A kid in my uni was wearing a Che beret and a Mao Zedong shirt. Got into a huge argument with him by telling him wearing a Mao shirt was worse than wearing a Hitler shirt, he denied all of the deaths Mao is responsible for saying it is lies and CIA propaganda, which is basically the same thing as denying the holocaust. Turned out he was just an ignorant dumbass who didn't understand what he was talking about. But still it's pretty disgusting, a man kills 70 million of his own people and there are idiots out there who prop him up as a hero they look up to.

[MavsSuperFan]

Mao Zedong:49-78 million
Jozef Stalin: 23 million
Pol Pot: 1.7 million
Kim Il Sung: 1.6 million
Ho Chi Minh: 200,000
Fidel Castro and Che Guevera: 50,000


A kid in my uni was wearing a Che beret and a Mao Zedong shirt. Got into a huge argument with him by telling him wearing a Mao shirt was worse than wearing a Hitler shirt, he denied all of the deaths Mao is responsible for saying it is lies and CIA propaganda, which is basically the same thing as denying the holocaust. Turned out he was just an ignorant dumbass who didn't understand what he was talking about. But still it's pretty disgusting, a man kills 70 million of his own people and there are idiots out there who prop him up as a hero they look up to.

Even the Guevara shirts are dumb, especially for people who claim to be pacifists.

[stallionaire]

And you think that the number of deaths under all of these dictators are a direct correlation to Socialism being in place?

How many deaths can we attribute to capitalism? People not having enough money to survive would be a way to quantify that using your logic.

[Sarcastic]

You should say communist leaders, unless you are being misleading on purpose.

[Nick Young]

And you think that the number of deaths under all of these dictators are a direct correlation to Socialism being in place?

How many deaths can we attribute to capitalism? People not having enough money to survive would be a way to quantify that using your logic.

Seems like it, considering that all of the biggest genocides have happened in socialist countries as well.

[embersyc]

There are no Socialist leaders. There are no socialist countries.

All those people are Communists.

[MMM]

The closest thing to socialism are social democracy of Europe and Canada, which also seem to have the highest qualities of life. They seem to have the happiest people and far more social cohesion.

[miller-time]

I love how you are complaining about ignorance, and then use the word socialist as a blanket term to define all of these people. Stalinism and Maoism differ from each other, and they are nothing like the theories they claim to be based on.

[LJJ]

The closest thing to socialism are social democracy of Europe and Canada, which also seem to have the highest qualities of life. They seem to have the happiest people and far more social cohesion.

Not at all really, most of the European systems are very much based on capitalism with a couple of social measures sprinkled on top. Fundamentally capitalist though. The reason people refer to it as socialist is because those governments take a small amount of care that their most vulnerable citizens still have access to a modicum of human decency and quality of life. Calling that socialism is a total misnomer. It's incredible how conservatives in America get away with calling that socialism without being taken for complete idiots by 90% of the population.

The states of Mao and Stalin were much closer to the textbook definition of socialism than let's say, modern Denmark. That, there is a reason we have a separate term for Stalin's way of governing called Stalinism, just like we have a separate term for Mao's way called Maoism. Each of them has some very fundamental differences compared to each other, compared to fundamental socialism, Marxism, Leninism, etc.
One thing is for certain though: under both Mao's and Stalin's rule the de facto power was in the hands on a very small number of people and the states were extremely totalitarian and oppressive. Anyone who says the main cause of their atrocities is something else clearly has an agenda and should be disregarded completely.

[MetsPackers]

The deaths under Mao were a means to revolutionize China, it wasn't going to happen on it's own. Sort of like the guerilla terrorist movements which ended apartheid in South Africa. Mao was much more of a good guy for China than a bad guy. He legitimized China to the rest of the world and was for the people.

[LJJ]

The deaths under Mao were a means to revolutionize China, it wasn't going to happen on it's own. Sort of like the guerilla terrorist movements which ended apartheid in South Africa. Mao was much more of a good guy for China than a bad guy. He legitimized China to the rest of the world and was for the people.

Wow. That's a bit of a great leap there.

The reason Mao is seen as a monster is because the great famine that caused the death of about 40 million people and intense suffering of hundreds of millions more was completely, 100% avoidable. It's a bit much to call a guy who willfully and knowingly let his own people starve to death "good for China". Mao directly caused it and directly let it continue for years even though he essentially had the power to stop the famine at a moments notice.
Additionally, I'm sure the tens of millions of innocent civilians who died in the Chinese gulags after the communist state had long been established were "necessary for the revolution" as well.

If you want to look at a communist leader who was good for China, look at Deng Xiaoping, not Mao Zedong.

[joe]

stunning. it's sad that socialists are allowed to take the moral high ground these days, while capitalism has such a bad name. Capitalism allowed millions more humans to occupy this Earth, millions of people to have cars and food and such. While socialism (or whatever you want to call it) is the greatest tool of government murder we have seen. But hippies (supposed peace makers) wear shirts with socialist dictators on it at anti-capitalist rallies. wtf

[LJJ]

stunning. it's sad that socialists are allowed to take the moral high ground these days, while capitalism has such a bad name. Capitalism allowed millions more humans to occupy this Earth, millions of people to have cars and food and such. While socialism (or whatever you want to call it) is the greatest tool of government murder we have seen. But hippies (supposed peace makers) wear shirts with socialist dictators on it at anti-capitalist rallies. wtf

Stunning is the degree of mental incompetence you display in every post you make.

[joe]

Stunning is the degree of mental incompetence you display in every post you make.

you think so?

[demons2005]

I wouldn't be surprised if a second term Obama joins the list. If he wins people will be very discontent with all the voter fraud that the Dems are intent on protecting and anything can happen. Most armed Americans are conservative. And where is Hitler on that list? I'm sure he's got more than some of them. I love how American liberals ignore the fact that he called his own party socialist.