The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

[miller-time]

seriously though if 30% of the population believed the Earth is 6,000 years old there would definitely be a handful of them in here...

this isn't true. the number could be 90% and it doesn't mean there would have to definitely be some of them here.

or some of them could be here and are simply not talking about it.

[-p.tiddy-]

this isn't true. [COLOR="Red"]the number could be 90% and it doesn't mean there would have to definitely be some of them here.[/COLOR]

or some of them could be here and are simply not talking about it.

it would mean there is an astoundingly good chance there is...nearly impossible there wouldn't be unless somehow being an NBA fan correlated with reading the Bible a certain way but it doesn't at all...

there are more insidehoops members than there are people that participated in that poll lol

[miller-time]

yes you def can...

the only story I think that is a must to believe in literally is that Jesus is the son of God, died on the cross for your sins, etc

most of the others, Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve, etc, can be taken as symbolic...

Well they have to be taken as symbolic because they are logically absurd. But as I said before, the narrative doesn't make sense if the fall isn't a literal part of the bible. Normally I don't bother debating scripture because you can't really pin anything down. It is essentially left up to interpretation so once I make a definitive statement a Christian can just say I am interpreting it wrongly.

Additionally I think this highlights to stupidity of God if this is how he decided to reveal his message - through a highly subjective and interpretive literary style. The very fact that Christianity has different denominations reveals the problem with the allegorical approach and overall style. Even the most concise and simple allegory can easily be misunderstood.

Edit - I thought this was your last post, but I was looking at page one lol.

[-p.tiddy-]

Well they have to be taken as symbolic because they are logically absurd. But as I said before, the narrative doesn't make sense if the fall isn't a literal part of the bible. Normally I don't bother debating scripture because you can't really pin anything down. It is essentially left up to interpretation so once I make a definitive statement a Christian can just say I am interpreting it wrongly.

Additionally I think this highlights to stupidity of God if this is how he decided to reveal his message - through a highly subjective and interpretive literary style. The very fact that Christianity has different denominations reveals the problem with the allegorical approach and overall style. Even the most concise and simple allegory can easily be misunderstood.

Edit - I thought this was your last post, but I was looking at page one lol.

here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...6&postcount=20

[hookul]

Well they have to be taken as symbolic because they are logically absurd. But as I said before, the narrative doesn't make sense if the fall isn't a literal part of the bible. Normally I don't bother debating scripture because you can't really pin anything down. It is essentially left up to interpretation so once I make a definitive statement a Christian can just say I am interpreting it wrongly.

Additionally I think this highlights to stupidity of God if this is how he decided to reveal his message - through a highly subjective and interpretive literary style. The very fact that Christianity has different denominations reveals the problem with the allegorical approach and overall style. Even the most concise and simple allegory can easily be misunderstood.

Edit - I thought this was your last post, but I was looking at page one lol.

Let me point out that I am not christian, that I certainly do not believe that a person named Jesus was the son of god. So I am not argueing with you because I disagree with you because we have basic fundamental believe differences. I just think that you take a too narrow view on these things and see this issue in mostly black-and-white when there are many shades of grey. The bolded sentence above symbolizes this in my opinion.

To put it simply: Assuming that a powerful being such as god exists, a being which I assume by your theoretical interpretation would then be more knowledgeable and "wiser" than any human, who would you be to judge that his actions are stupid? Quite frankly we as humans have poblems to proclaim the action of other humans as stupid or wise as we all come from different experiences, motivations etc...and you have the "arrogance" to assume that god has to think like you (arrogance for a lack of a better word, not meant as an insult)? Don't you see that this logically does not work?
Of the top of my head, I could assume that this god does not give a big shit about people worshipping him according to a sricpture made by other people but that the most important thing to him would be the free-will of humans. If so, if free will is the most important principle to him and god basically put humans on earth as an experiment for himself, than he might be just fine with humans doing "their own thing and interpretations". That would not make him stupid.
Moreover, if we assume that the "free will" of humans and their "free development" without major interference by him is very important to god, then I would claim that he actually did quite a good job in explaining the beginning of things in words that the humans at their development level back then would allow to understand.

What I mean is, assume you know come in contact with a native tribe in the amazone jungle and you want to explain how everything came into existing according to newest scientific knowledge about big bang, etc....wouldn't you also talk about the big bang in terms such as "there was nothing at first, not even time...then there was a huge bang, a huge light and in the immediate time afterwards was chaos...then small things began to form and from then larger land was generated...". To be honest, when talking to such a hypothetical tribe, I know I would try to explain it this way to them at first. And this sounds quite similiar to genesis in a way.

And then you let this tribe be...and at first they just communicate these stories verbally until they develop writing...and by then these stories changed a little bit through times and it begins to be written down. And then other tribes with other worldviews and languages begin to get in contact with them...and they do not have words for some of the things the other tribes want to say...so they use or invent some new words...and the original message that you a few centuries ago told the original tribe becomes even more modified.etc.etc. To me, this could be a logical development starting from how God wanted to explain the universe to humans and how everything including religion developed from it. This would not make god stupid, this would just mean that he values free will and development of his/her/its creation over a dictatorship. And again, starting from the assumption that this god being is wiser, more knowledgable etc, than any human...what logical reason would you then have to question god's values?

[miller-time]

Let me point out that I am not christian, that I certainly do not believe that a person named Jesus was the son of god. So I am not argueing with you because I disagree with you because we have basic fundamental believe differences. I just think that you take a too narrow view on these things and see this issue in mostly black-and-white when there are many shades of grey. The bolded sentence above symbolizes this in my opinion.

i don't take such a narrow view in real life. i just find the generic conversations from apologetic christianity kind of boring and useless. if god existed then he can do what he wants and his methods are probably sound. but that is presuppositionalist.

To put it simply: Assuming that a powerful being such as god exists, a being which I assume by your theoretical interpretation would then be more knowledgeable and "wiser" than any human, who would you be to judge that his actions are stupid? Quite frankly we as humans have poblems to proclaim the action of other humans as stupid or wise as we all come from different experiences, motivations etc...and you have the "arrogance" to assume that god has to think like you (arrogance for a lack of a better word, not meant as an insult)? Don't you see that this logically does not work?
Of the top of my head, I could assume that this god does not give a big shit about people worshipping him according to a sricpture made by other people but that the most important thing to him would be the free-will of humans. If so, if free will is the most important principle to him and god basically put humans on earth as an experiment for himself, than he might be just fine with humans doing "their own thing and interpretations". That would not make him stupid.
Moreover, if we assume that the "free will" of humans and their "free development" without major interference by him is very important to god, then I would claim that he actually did quite a good job in explaining the beginning of things in words that the humans at their development level back then would allow to understand.

i don't disagree with that. but i'm not talking about god's existence, i'm talking about the literal nature of genesis. literally it is wrong. allegorically it is too subjective. if this actually is god's best effort then i can only conclude that i am failing to see the big picture.

What I mean is, assume you know come in contact with a native tribe in the amazone jungle and you want to explain how everything came into existing according to newest scientific knowledge about big bang, etc....wouldn't you also talk about the big bang in terms such as "there was nothing at first, not even time...then there was a huge bang, a huge light and in the immediate time afterwards was chaos...then small things began to form and from then larger land was generated...". To be honest, when talking to such a hypothetical tribe, I know I would try to explain it this way to them at first. And this sounds quite similiar to genesis in a way.

i wouldn't lie to them either. if i am talking to a 5 year old about how the universe began or the earth form i don't need to tell him about the specifics of red shifting or accretion disks, i'd just need to state who, what, when, where, and make it accurate. they can figure the rest out on their own - but at least what they discover won't be inaccurate.

And then you let this tribe be...and at first they just communicate these stories verbally until they develop writing...and by then these stories changed a little bit through times and it begins to be written down. And then other tribes with other worldviews and languages begin to get in contact with them...and they do not have words for some of the things the other tribes want to say...so they use or invent some new words...and the original message that you a few centuries ago told the original tribe becomes even more modified.etc.etc. To me, this could be a logical development starting from how God wanted to explain the universe to humans and how everything including religion developed from it. This would not make god stupid, this would just mean that he values free will and development of his/her/its creation over a dictatorship. And again, starting from the assumption that this god being is wiser, more knowledgable etc, than any human...what logical reason would you then have to question god's values?

at the expensive of millions of lives throughout the ages because groups of people wanted to add, reinterpret, or remove parts of the original message? i'm not questioning god's values, i am indirectly questioning peoples belief that this book is really the best the guy could do.

sorry if my answers aren't very good (or even make sense) i am tired and in the middle of cooking dinner.

[-p.tiddy-]

if this actually is god's best effort then i can only conclude that i am failing to see the big picture.

the big picture is very simple, do onto others as you would yourself, understand you need to be forgiven for your sins, BE A GOOD PERSON, etc

it's the same "big picture" as every other major religion on the planet


all the other stuff is details for the most part and is debated heavily by Christian scholars...again it is a big mix of different books written by different people, and rewritten by people, etc...it isn't read the same way as normal story book.

[ROCSteady]

bump.

I couldn't sleep becuz I was pondering on all those 'deep, profound' questions so I went to this bookmark of mine to make some factual sense of existence while still wanting to adhere to a connection of benevolent faith and understanding of the possible divine and supernatural roots of it all.

I hope people have taken some time to look through this thread at some point instead of the minute, monotonous wanderings of an era of negativity, narcissism and overall ignorance or disregard to things that have plagued the earliest thinker.

[Take Your Lumps]

the big picture is very simple:
do onto others as you would yourself
understand you need to be forgiven for your sins
BE A GOOD PERSON

♫ One of these is not like the other ♫

[boozehound]

I think that the Christians (it's really Christians this speaks of) that believe or even give thought to this kind of stuff are a VERY small minority of the all Christians...less than 1% (my guess)

It's sad though because the ones that do believe these things give a bad name to the rest of them who are able to come to conclusions with logic...There are plenty of Christian scientists out there...

go look at the polls. Nearly half of people in the US dont accept the law of evolution. They may not be young earth creationists, but they are creationists. and they are pushing to incorporate their religious agenda into scientific textbooks. You should know this, you live in texas. Look up your state board of eduction or even your governor's stance on this.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/ho...n-origins.aspx

Creationists are a much larger % of our society than you (and niko and rezznor) realize. There are tons of them.
http://ncse.com/rncse/24/5/creationists

[-p.tiddy-]

go look at the polls. Nearly half of people in the US dont accept the law of evolution. They may not be young earth creationists, but they are creationists. and they are pushing to incorporate their religious agenda into scientific textbooks. You should know this, you live in texas. Look up your state board of eduction or even your governor's stance on this.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/ho...n-origins.aspx

Creationists are a much larger % of our society than you (and niko and rezznor) realize. There are tons of them.
http://ncse.com/rncse/24/5/creationists

well that is sad if true

I can say with 100% honesty though that growing up in Dallas and having gone to school here at every level never once was "creationism" (is that even a word?) pushed on me...ever. The theory of Evolution was brought up numerous times in classrooms though.

I know most of the colleges here are prestigious as well...and would never throw that at people...

I'm sure this nonsense can be found in rural parts of Texas but I myself have never witnessed it and I have lived here my whole life...

You grew up in Houston right? Both Dallas and Houston are very big cities...were you taught Adam and Eve in fcking school???

[Miss Bella]

devout christians take the Bible seriously.... They believe the stories in the Bible are literal.


They believe Jesus Really dies on a cross and resurrected 3 days later...

In catholic church, when you receive Communion, they believe you are REALLY drinking the the blood of Christ and eating his flesh when you receive the wafer.

In current American society you have alot of people who claim to be christians (mostly because they want to go to heaven) but they dont believe the stories in the Bible...

The hardcore fundamentalists & hardcore catholics believe that stuff word for word.. You cant really be christian if you dont believe the stories...

The whole religion is based on FAITH....

you cant cherry pick what believe and what you dont believe

I have done communion and I am pretty sure all of the Christians I done it with knew that wine only symbolizes the blood of Christ.

I do not believe a lot of Americans longer are Christians, more cultural Christians. Which is a great thing. Christian cultures are the best.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Good guess, but no.



More Demographic Breakdown


This is why the U.S. is so low in math/science rankings worldwide and the problem will only get worse unless people stand up against willful ignorance

Im sure it has nothing to do with the dissolution of the family structure, unsupervised and minimally encouraged children, lack of incentive due to economic stability and so forth.


Im sure the kids who never do homework, never have a book put in their hands at a young age, have no guidance or support... Im sure those are the ones who go to church with their family on Sunday and thats why they cant learn to multiply fractions.



Lets blame big easy targets like "the church" so we dont have to be big mean bullies and point the finger at billy bob or leshawn who skipped town on their child and baby mama to go drink and smoke meth and make more kids somewhere else. Individuals can never do anything wrong, right? Its just one person, how harmful can they be?? Its these big stupid establishments like the church and the media and the corporations and the government, arrrgghh! Its never people.

[Rasheed1]

I have done communion and I am pretty sure all of the Christians I done it with knew that wine only symbolizes the blood of Christ.

Are you catholic? Catholics believe it is literally the body and blood of christ they are ingesting.. Catholics believe God is truly present in the tabernacle that sits up behind the alter...I was a catholic and this was specified to me when I asked.. Baptists and some other denominations who perform communion, do it symbolically.. but Catholics take it literally.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Are you catholic? Catholics believe it is literally the body and blood of christ they are ingesting.. Catholics believe God is truly present in the tabernacle that sits up behind the alter. I was a catholic and this was specified to me when I asked.. ..

Black people believe going to prison makes you respectable. Black people believe they deserve reparations. Black people believe fighting is how to solve disputes and crime is how you earn a living.


I talked to a black guy and he explained this to me.