Where did the 'Kobe Bryant is a leader (a good one at that)' myth begin?

[stallionaire]

I want to know why people think Kobe Bryant is a good leader.

Last night C Webb called out the fact that the entire team is laid back and lazy on the court and they don't have anywhere near the urgency they should at this point in the season. He recalled Jordan's Bulls in the 90s and that they wanted to be dominate every night and their demeanor on the court filled the arena with tension so tough you could cut it with a knife.

Part of that was because Jordan groomed the team to not **** around, ever. Go HAM all season and then win the ship.

Kobe Bryant has never appeared to me as a good leader. He talks behind players backs, in recent interviews Kobe even talks like he has all the answers as a leader but the product isn't getting better and it's been terrible since pre-season.

Hell, even LeBron James can be considered a great leader with what he had on the Cavs. Terrible personell but he inspired the team, LIFTED them to 60+ seasons.

So I ask again:

Where did the myth begin? Why is Kobe even considered a leader?

It's pretty clear Phil Jackson was the leader in all his tenure with Kobe. Shaq for his 3FMVPs.

[Bandito]

I am not saying he's a good leader but you do know there is so much he can do to inspire people right? If the don't play with urgency he can't spank them in retaliation.

Also they are missing two key players in gasol and Nash. Nash was traded to lead the charge. And either way the problem is defense, and the Lakers haven't do a good job at it. And the guy traded to lead the D, hasn't do a good job at it either. Is not completely his fault the team hasn't play that good, but yes he would have to change his view of hoe to lead completely if he wants to.win. Somebody on the Lakers management should give him the Art of War to Kobe for inspiration.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Where did it begin? Probably in being the most successful team player of this generation. 7 conference titles, 5 championship titles. If you wish to credit him for his teams record this year then you also have to credit him for his unrivaled past team success. If Phil Jackson was the only leader of the last two, then why is Mike Brown/ D'antoni not to blame for this year's record? Why is Michael Jordan considered a successful team leader if his teams also were "led" by Phil Jackson.

I don't think LeBron James winning a single title with two all star players during a shortened season shows his style of leadership is better.

[ripthekik]

[QUOTE]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--ke...200009299.html

"I don't know who labels people stars, but even [T'wolves owner] Glen Taylor said: I don't think Kevin Love is a star, because he hasn't led us to the playoffs," Love told Yahoo! Sports. "I mean, it's not like I had much support out there.
"That's a tough pill to swallow."

He missed a month on the floor, but his ears missed nothing from those in management whispering that maybe the injury didn't happen the way Love insisted it did.
"Even people in my own organization were asking if it was a legitimate injury, people calling my honesty and integrity into question," Love says. "And that's what really hurt me."

[B]"You walk into the locker room every year, and it's completely turned over," Love says. "There's new guys everywhere. And then it happens again and again. You start to wonder: Is there really a plan here? Is there really any kind of a

[stallionaire]

7th seed and rising. still more injured than the lakers

[ripthekik]

7th seed and rising. still more injured than the lakers

when Lakers eventually rise up into playoff seeding, which team do you think is going to be left out?

[stallionaire]

when Lakers eventually rise up into playoff seeding, which team do you think is going to be left out?

The Lakers.



move along son.

I got a 7th seed team that is locked for a top 4 seed. Swerve bitch.

[Shepseskaf]

I want to know why people think Kobe Bryant is a good leader.

Last night C Webb called out the fact that the entire team is laid back and lazy on the court and they don't have anywhere near the urgency they should at this point in the season. He recalled Jordan's Bulls in the 90s and that they wanted to be dominate every night and their demeanor on the court filled the arena with tension so tough you could cut it with a knife.

Part of that was because Jordan groomed the team to not **** around, ever. Go HAM all season and then win the ship.

Kobe Bryant has never appeared to me as a good leader. He talks behind players backs, in recent interviews Kobe even talks like he has all the answers as a leader but the product isn't getting better and it's been terrible since pre-season.

Hell, even LeBron James can be considered a great leader with what he had on the Cavs. Terrible personell but he inspired the team, LIFTED them to 60+ seasons.

So I ask again:

Where did the myth begin? Why is Kobe even considered a leader?

It's pretty clear Phil Jackson was the leader in all his tenure with Kobe. Shaq for his 3FMVPs.

You raise some very valid points. I think that Kobe is more of a 'lead by example' type of individual than someone who knows how to motivate teammates through personal communication.

The fact remains, though, that he has been either the de facto leader, or one of the top leaders, of an incredibly successful franchise for over a decade and a half. He has to get lots of credit for playing that role, though it can be debated on who the most effective leader was during that time period.

For me, though, Kobe's history of talking about teammates through the media and throwing people under the bus is troubling. To a certain extent, that will diminsh his legacy, but no matter what he'll go down in history as one of the greatest winners in sporting history.

[stallionaire]

You raise some very valid points. I think that Kobe is more of a 'lead by example' type of individual than someone who knows how to motivate teammates through personal communication.

The fact remains, though, that he has been either the de facto leader, or one of the top leaders, of an incredibly successful franchise for over a decade and a half. He has to get lots of credit for playing that role, though it can be debated on who the most effective leader was during that time period.

For me, though, Kobe's history of talking about teammates through the media and throwing people under the bus is troubling. To a certain extent, that will diminsh his legacy, but no matter what he'll go down in history as one of the greatest winners in sporting history.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'm surprised I got one.

+rep

[swi7ch]

No idea.

Remember, this is the same guy who's team was up 3-1 against the PHO Suns in the mid-00s and in game 7, he scored 28 pts in the first half and attempted only like 3 shots in the second half. Not because the Suns played great defense but because he realized just how much he had to do just to beat the Suns and that was only the first round. He demanded a trade after that season.

Same thing in the Finals against BOS. Just flat-out quit in Game 7 and got blown out.

[Bandito]

No idea.

Remember, this is the same guy who's team was up 3-1 against the PHO Suns in the mid-00s and in game 7, he scored 28 pts in the first half and attempted only like 3 shots in the second half. Not because the Suns played great defense but because he realized just how much he had to do just to beat the Suns and that was only the first round. He demanded a trade after that season.

Same thing in the Finals against BOS. Just flat-out quit in Game 7 and got blown out.

In defense of Kobe in Boston he just got owned by Pierce

[Yao Ming's Foot]

No idea.

Remember, this is the same guy who's team was up 3-1 against the PHO Suns in the mid-00s and in game 7, he scored 28 pts in the first half and attempted only like 3 shots in the second half. Not because the Suns played great defense but because he realized just how much he had to do just to beat the Suns and that was only the first round. He demanded a trade after that season.

Same thing in the Finals against BOS. Just flat-out quit in Game 7 and got blown out.

Kobe's playoff team success in unrivaled in recent memory.

If the worst thing you can say about his leadership is his inabiliity to lead a 7th seed past a 2 seed or he didn't win a 6th title already, then apparently there are only a couple or so good team leaders in NBA history.

[swag2011]

You raise some very valid points. I think that Kobe is more of a 'lead by example' type of individual than someone who knows how to motivate teammates through personal communication.

The fact remains, though, that he has been either the de facto leader, or one of the top leaders, of an incredibly successful franchise for over a decade and a half. He has to get lots of credit for playing that role, though it can be debated on who the most effective leader was during that time period.

For me, though, Kobe's history of talking about teammates through the media and throwing people under the bus is troubling. To a certain extent, that will diminsh his legacy, but no matter what he'll go down in history as one of the greatest winners in sporting history.

Can you give me an example of this, because from what I can remember, any and every person kobe has talked about through the media has said something about him as well.

Kobe and Shaq BOTH went at each other in the media. Phil told the world Kobe was uncoachable, yet Kobe never said anything back. He must not have been THAT uncoachable because Phil came back and coached him a few years later, with a sh*t team.

Called out Bynum? Sure i'll give you that one. yet people absolutely forget kobe sticking up for bynum all last year when he took the 3 pointer, when he played poorly in the playoffs, and when he said he sat out in timeouts. There are SEVERAL videos on youtube of kobe sticking up for bynum during all that last year, yet no one comments on this now do we?

Gasol? The only thing i can remember him saying about Gasol was that he needs to play with a higher sense of urgency and be more aggressive. And once again, this past summer Kobe made a statement and said as long as I'm with the Lakers, Gasol will be there. Just this week, he talked about wanting to play with Gasol and wanting him to be here. So why aren't we talking about that?

The ONLY time i can remember he called out a teammate was Smush Parker, and that was after Smush started taking shots at Kobe through the media. So all this calling out teammate stuff people claim Kobe does is so petty. And where does he throw people under the bus at as well? Not trying to be defensive, but you can't make claims yet give no examples.

But NOTHING will diminish his legacy contrary to what the OP and several others wish to happen. It's set in stone no matter what. I could run a list through all the accolades and stories of his work ethic, determination, but i'll spare you. Nothing can take that away from him or diminish his legacy.

[I<3NBA]

Where did it begin? Probably in being the most successful team player of this generation. 7 conference titles, 5 championship titles. If you wish to credit him for his teams record this year then you also have to credit him for his unrivaled past team success. If Phil Jackson was the only leader of the last two, then why is Mike Brown/ D'antoni not to blame for this year's record? Why is Michael Jordan considered a successful team leader if his teams also were "led" by Phil Jackson.

I don't think LeBron James winning a single title with two all star players during a shortened season shows his style of leadership is better.

all the achievements you mentioned are a result of Jackson leading the team, NOT Bryant. go jack off somewhere else where your stupidity does not offend.

and yeah, that includes MJ who couldn't "lead" a team without Jackson.

see the pattern here genius? if not, i'll remind you.

Bulls without Jackson - nowhere. Bulls with Jackson. 6 championships.

Kobe without Jackson - nowhere. Kobe with Jackson - all those rings you're so proud of

[Shepseskaf]

But NOTHING will diminish his legacy contrary to what the OP and several others wish to happen. It's set in stone no matter what. I could run a list through all the accolades and stories of his work ethic, determination, but i'll spare you. Nothing can take that away from him or diminish his legacy.

Dude, take a deep breath and relax. I was trying to present a realistic view of Kobe, as both an individual and a player.

If you're the undisputed leader of a team, you don't say to the media that one of the top players on your squad needs to "put his big boy's pants on". You simply shouldn't do that, but not a single person can pretend to be surprised when Kobe did.

You can protest about his legacy all you want, but its common knowledge that Kobe isn't the greatest teammate by reputation.

Is he one of the hardest workers and greatest winners in the game? Unquestionably, yes. Has he always been a supportive teammate and leader? No.