Do you feel too many unqualified students are entering colleges?

[Stuckey]

I wanted to be a math teacher at one point in my life, then I took a course on matrices and bombed the first two midterms, pulled a miracle hail mary on the finals though

[ace23]

Now imagine if college studies would be for free and the only thing that would be matter would be your intelligence and hard work and dedication.

That is the only thing that matters. Simply having money won't get you into a good school here in the States.

If you're poor, then you have money to survive.

What are you trying to say here?

[miller-time]

Even worse, I was talking to a guy when I was out last night that was doing work for the university during the orientation week (just showing new students how to get to places and use the computer system and such) and they now have parent days. Parent days. These kids today can't even start university without their parents hovering around and asking questions. I honestly don't understand why their parents need to be involved at all. They are freaking 18 and 19 years old!

[Math2]

The standards are being dumbed down by having standardized tests in which teachers can **** everything except whatever they know will be on the tests over. And since people want better graduation rates, the big solution is to dumb down the standards. Which is ridiculous. It obviously increases graduation rates, but at the same time it doesn't challenge people to actually try that hard to succeed. In high school I can basically give minimum, cruise control effort and still get straight A's. Whether it's just me or the system remains to be seen

[goldenryan]

If anything it is the opposite. I bet law and med degrees are a lot easier to obtain in India and China than here. I went to a dentist office and walked out of the room because of how clueless the "doctor" was. Not sure if he was middle eastern or Italian but no way in hell he would made the grade at a university here.

[Immortal Bum]

as long as college is a business, this will be the result. it isn't very difficult to get through college without learning much if you're ambitious. folks just want that piece of paper that says their qualified to earn paper. as long as you value the award more than proof that one is deserving of the award, you'll never have an accurate assessment of who can do their job until they actually have to do it.

[atljonesbro]

In certain ways I think kids today are smarter than the past generation. And also I think more blame should be put on schools because its not the students fault what they are learning and how.

[Akrazotile]

I have a friend who is a TA for a huge 100 level math class. It literally has over 150 students. I was a teacher's assistant for a precalc course and I expected students to be able to graph, know trig, etc. and comfortably add fractions, but his students are having trouble doing that.

Shiver on point as usual

[Nick Young]

Yes. Universities are lowering standards so they can accept more students and collect more tuition fees. A degree means less and less every year because of it.

[Dresta]

Thing is, almost everyone seems to acknowledge that standards have fallen off a cliff over the past half century, but few are willing to acknowledge the cause (too many students who aren't intellectually gifted attending places that should be especially for the intellectually gifted).

[nathanjizzle]

Thing is, almost everyone seems to acknowledge that standards have fallen off a cliff over the past half century, but few are willing to acknowledge the cause (too many students who aren't intellectually gifted attending places that should be especially for the intellectually gifted).

No, just no. Higher education is not or should not be aimed for "intellectually gifted people". That is nonsense and the ramifications of that would lead to a degeneration in general technology and other industries that rely on college to produce talent and work. you just dont know what you are talking about. but hey, as long as it sounds like your making a good point.

[BoutPractice]

The high school system in America is notoriously light on content and intellectual ambition - students come out of it with very little knowledge or critical thinking skills, especially in public schools. Whatever you learn in "XYZ 101" would have already been covered in a European secondary school.

The French system isn't one I would overly praise, but by the end of secondary schools, students will typically have a basic understanding of math, science, history and geography lacking in the American student. They will even know a bit of philosophy...

However, it has to be said that the American system is much better at preparing students for life outside of school. Because American culture encourages participation from a young age, American students entering college know less, but do more than their French counterparts. Many of them work humbling part time jobs, they volunteer, they play sports... they join bands, drive cars, and get laid. Some of them already start businesses, or start tinkering with computers... Unsurprisingly, they generally enter into the adult world with a more positive mindset about the world, and a greater openness to change and serendipity. Finally, they tend to have a totally misplaced sense of self-confidence, which however irritating ends up serving them well.

This does not show up in stats, but goes a long way towards explaining how a country with such underwhelming test scores is still a hub of science and innovation. The positive effect of the American style of education is particularly strong for those young adults with high potential, who will learn the facts on their own anyway but have more opportunities for translating those gifts into tangible achievements, and a larger sense of possibility.

Ideally an educational system would find some kind of equilibrium between knowledge and know-how - some European countries have already achieved something close to that - but the American approach isn't half as bad as it's made out to be.

[Dresta]

No, just no. Higher education is not or should not be aimed for "intellectually gifted people". That is nonsense and the ramifications of that would lead to a degeneration in general technology and other industries that rely on college to produce talent and work. you just dont know what you are talking about. but hey, as long as it sounds like your making a good point.

You're a prime example of someone who shouldn't be going anywhere near higher education, but probably will end up in some shitty College learning some worthless degree on the back of a subsidised loan, paid for by people who actually work; Christ, with you, high school would be a waste of time and money. But alas, entitlement culture is gonna give you a 4 year vacation before you start working in KFC.

Universities are centres of learning, not centres for job-training - these are functions that would find an outlet with or without universities (that the government pays people to study finance is hilarious: as if these industries would not train their own people if the government wasn't paying for it and saving them the trouble). The Germans make a clear distinction between these two things, and their industries are far more effective than American ones, nor do they have the obscene trade deficit of a country like America. They stream based on academic ability at around 14 (i believe), and those who don't meet the grade go to some technical college, where they learn some skill or trade; these people, if shunted into universities with those who actually deserve to be there, end up degrading and dragging down the standards and academic culture of all. Again, it is the most simple logic that tells you MORE MEANS WORSE - that is an axiomatic truth, ignore it however you like.

If what you were saying were true you would not have America with an enormous trade deficit and hoards of university graduates working as waiters and taxi drivers. Basically, your post is so incredibly ignorant, and so utterly incorrect, that it quite boggles the mind.

[nathanjizzle]

You're a prime example of someone who shouldn't be going anywhere near higher education, but probably will end up in some shitty College learning some worthless degree on the back of a subsidised loan, paid for by people who actually work; Christ, with you, high school would be a waste of time and money. But alas, entitlement culture is gonna give you a 4 year vacation before you start working in KFC.

Universities are centres of learning, not centres for job-training - these are functions that would find an outlet with or without universities (that the government pays people to study finance is hilarious: as if these industries would not train their own people if the government wasn't paying for it and saving them the trouble). The Germans make a clear distinction between these two things, and their industries are far more effective than American ones, nor do they have the obscene trade deficit of a country like America. They stream based on academic ability at around 14 (i believe), and those who don't meet the grade go to some technical college, where they learn some skill or trade; these people, if shunted into universities with those who actually deserve to be there, end up degrading and dragging down the standards and academic culture of all. Again, it is the most simple logic that tells you MORE MEANS WORSE - that is an axiomatic truth, ignore it however you like.

If what you were saying were true you would not have America with an enormous trade deficit and hoards of university graduates working as waiters and taxi drivers. Basically, your post is so incredibly ignorant, and so utterly incorrect, that it quite boggles the mind.

sorry but you just dont know what you are talking about. You spew alot of shit that doesnt correlate in reality. Industries like computer science dont have the time to train people to professional standards, these are businesses of industry, not businesses of schools. 2-3 years spending money to train an employee base and culling out the unfit is not possible nor efficient otherwise they would be doing it now. The influx of students relying on universities for a career path is beyond what the job market offers. however, it would even be a greater problem if 98 percent of those intellectually "ungifted" college students were sent to trade schools or community colleges. the trade job market would be over flooded and those graduates would again suffer from low salary or unemployment. and the jobs that would have been filled by your intellectually ungifted university student is now unfilled and stalls the growth of the industry it is in. The demand and supply for industry jobs always balance themselves out. Imagine if the tech industry didnt have the surplus or even adequate amount of university students in the 90s and 2000's studying computer science, that industry would not be here where it is today.

BTW, guys like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs wernt intellectually gifted. but they built their empires based on the opportunities their universities gave them. Just being "intelligent" doesnt cut it, you have to have more talents and skills than just intelligence to be someone that leads in society, and by your idealogy, youd be culling the only people to learn in universities that wouldnt beable to lead in the real world.

[GIF REACTION]

But that was when we were friends. "When we were friends!"