James Harden to Houston = Worst trade in NBA History

[DMAVS41]

Again, you ISH posters love to refer to 1 series to define his career. It's gets old and is pointless. According you ISH, Harden can't improve his play. They were well on their way back to the finals as Western conference favorites and would have another 4 years to win the title. Instead, they have Martin for 1 year, a late lottery pick, and Lamb who they're basically dangling as a trade piece.

How's that for #Winning.

What. Talk about reading way too much into a statement.

I simply said that Harden really sucked most of the finals and was probably the biggest reason the Thunder lost. So how can you say this year is a failure if the the Thunder don't win it all?

Nobody said Harden can't improve...but have you ever thought that he wouldn't improve all that much playing only 31 minutes a game? Have you ever thought having Harden on the Thunder would curb the improvement of Westbrook / Durant/ Ibaka?

Have you thought about what it would potentially do to team chemistry with the Harden / Westbrook dilemma?

[chazzy]

I'd rather have Harden as my team's best player than Westbrook. He's more skilled and is a better natural playmaker and isolation scorer IMO. Westbrook's impact goes beyond his numbers with his relentless attacking putting pressure on defenses and opening things up on the perimeter.. but I don't think he'd be doing as well as Harden is right now in this situation. I'm not entirely sure if OKC would be better with Harden instead of Westbrook though because that's a different dynamic. OKC is already an elite offense, and Westbrook is more disruptive defensively.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'd rather have Harden as my team's best player than Westbrook. He's more skilled and is a better natural playmaker and isolation scorer IMO.

This. Westbrook is REALLY overrated.

[DMAVS41]

This. Westbrook is REALLY overrated.

How is that the conclusion you got from his post?

[supe12sta12z]

What. Talk about reading way too much into a statement.

I simply said that Harden really sucked most of the finals and was probably the biggest reason the Thunder lost. So how can you say this year is a failure if the the Thunder don't win it all?

Nobody said Harden can't improve...but have you ever thought that he wouldn't improve all that much playing only 31 minutes a game? Have you ever thought having Harden on the Thunder would curb the improvement of Westbrook / Durant/ Ibaka?

Have you thought about what it would potentially do to team chemistry with the Harden / Westbrook dilemma?

That's a non-issue. They could take some minutes away from Thabo if they wanted to give him more minutes. He was 23, nowhere near his prime. He was still improving regardless of the minutes he received. He fitted in perfectly and the chemistry was NOT a problem. He could play both on and off ball well which is why it works. The quality of his play meshed well with his teammates.. especially his efficiency to score and create.

Keeping Harden gave them the best chance of winning it all. It's not unreasonable to believe that they would have won at least 1 if they resigned him for another 4 years. Talent like his doesn't grow on trees. How many Championships would the Spurs have won if they gave Ginobili away early in his career?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How is that the conclusion you got from his post?

Well, that's just my opinion. I agree w/ his post in that I'd rather have Harden than Westbrook.

[DMAVS41]

Well, that's just my opinion. I agree w/ his post in that I'd rather Harden over Westbrook.

He said he'd rather of Harden over Westbrook as the best player on a team. Which is something I would probably agree with it...although it would be very close for me.

[DMAVS41]

That's a non-issue. They could take some minutes away from Thabo if they wanted to give him more minutes. He was 23, nowhere near his prime. He was still improving regardless of the minutes he received. He fitted in perfectly and the chemistry was NOT a problem. He could play both on and off ball well which is why it works. The quality of his play meshed well with his teammates.. especially his efficiency to score and create.

Keeping Harden gave them the best chance of winning it all. It's not unreasonable to believe that they would have won at least 1 if they resigned him for another 4 years. Talent like his doesn't grow on trees. How many Championships would the Spurs have won if they gave Ginobili away early in his career?

Nobody said they are better without him. But unfortunately we live in the real world where more than just winning basketball games factor in.

What I do know is that what Harden as a bench player gives you can be replaced. What Harden as a starter gives you is much harder to replace. The problem is that Harden can't be the player he is now on the Thunder with Westbrook and Durant. So that was the dilemma.

Presti chose to go with Westbrook...and I think that was the smart thing personally.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He said he'd rather of Harden over Westbrook as the best player on a team. Which is something I would probably agree with it...although it would be very close for me.

Well yeah, he's a better player

[DMAVS41]

Well yeah, he's a better player

Hmmmm. Not sure I think that is the standard for determining who the better player is. But even if it were....that still doesn't address reality.

Reality is that what the Thunder need...is best addressed by Westbrook in my opinion.

[tontoz]

He wasn't going to stay either way

Harden was restricted. OKC could match any offer. If OKC wanted to keep him they would have whether Harden wanted to be there or not.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Hmmmm. Not sure I think that is the standard for determining who the better player is. But even if it were....that still doesn't address reality.

Reality is that what the Thunder need...is best addressed by Westbrook in my opinion.

How much of a better playmaker and scorer do you think Westbrook is than Harden? Is it more conducive to his teams success?

[DMAVS41]

OK.

How much of a better playmaker and scorer do you think Westbrook is than Harden? Is it more conducive to his teams success?

I don't think Westbrook is a better playmaker than Harden. I said I think that Westbrook gives the Thunder more of what they need than Harden would.

I am certainly not going to dispute what Harden is doing, but the Rockets play a style that is really conducive to putting up big numbers.

If you made me choose one for the Thunder I'd take Westbrook. If you made me choose one for the Rockets...I'd choose Harden.

But that really isn't was this is about. It's about the notion that trading Harden was this huge mistake. I just think it is a perfect example of the law of diminishing returns. 3 ball dominant perimeter players...just don't like it.

[SCdac]

That's a non-issue. They could take some minutes away from Thabo if they wanted to give him more minutes. He was 23, nowhere near his prime. He was still improving regardless of the minutes he received. He fitted in perfectly and the chemistry was NOT a problem. He could play both on and off ball well which is why it works. The quality of his play meshed well with his teammates.. especially his efficiency to score and create.

Keeping Harden gave them the best chance of winning it all. It's not unreasonable to believe that they would have won at least 1 if they resigned him for another 4 years. Talent like his doesn't grow on trees. How many Championships would the Spurs have won if they gave Ginobili away early in his career?

Actually, around the time of the playoffs there were rumblings of Harden complaining in the locker room about his minutes and role. I think after a game in which he wasn't featured much in the 4th quarter. I'm not surprised, given his talent and age.

The difference between him and Manu/Spurs is, Manu was a late 2nd round pick who came to the league in his mid-20's and perfectly willing to take a role off the bench or in the starting lineup. Harden is young and looking at multiple big contracts – and OKC already has some on the books. You have to think he was craving some freedom... behind Durant and Westbrook, it's not really there.

[Shepseskaf]

Why are all these ISH posters so focused on PPG? OKC doesn't need his 26 PPG, but they need his ABILITY. His ability to handle the ball, rebounding, creating for himself and others, Running the offense, getting to the line, exploiting the second unit, and creating space for his teammates at the end of games while exploiting teams that over pursues Durant and Westbrook. All of that and his efficiency were off the charts. It's obvious that the guy bring much more to the table than just his ppg.

I agree with most of this from a pure skills perspective, but you can't pay $16+ million a year for a bench player.

If you're going to give Harden a max deal, then his playing time has to also be maximized. It makes no fiscal sense to play him 30 minutes a game, while making all that money.

No one is claiming that Martin is more skilled than Harden, but his price tag fits much better into OKC's payroll. After this year, he'll be even cheaper, if they choose to re-sign him.