Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

[TheMarkMadsen]

First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall, i felt he could do everything better than Magic except the facilitate part..... and yes he was a better defender than Magic aswell, he managed to be honored with three 2nd all-defensive team spots... my father who was an avid Celtic fan in the 80s told me that the NBA fans considered by a majority Larry Bird being better overall talent than Magic, there was many polls, media discussions saying so and the players & coaches would mostly favor Bird aswell when asked....

I was a toddler in the 80s, did just barelly catch Bird and Magic live some years before they retired, but due to the tapes my father recorded (good ol VHS) i did kindof grow up watching lots of Larry Bird...

My point is also that i personally think when it comes to Lebron vs Bird its less safe to say he was better compared to Lebron vs Magic....

Here is this guy Lebron, a guy that has the rebounding ability of both Magic & Bird... that has the vision of both of them.... that has the passing ability which you could argue was better than Birds (Lebron was/is for sure at least a better assist man/facilitator, with better ballhandling/PG skills).... that has a greater scoring arsenal than Magic and that produces points better and more efficiently than Both of them....... and so on, offense is kindof arguable.... You begin to argue their offense, but soon as you start thinking about the defensive side..... the comparison is then pretty much over as Lebron is a much better defender than both of them.... Lebron has the versatility of Pippen on the defensive side while having the versatility of Magic on the offensive side....

Accolades wise Lebron still has a road ahead of him... but when you talk about individual players/talents, when you draw up what Lebron can do at this current stage in his career on both ends of the floor and at what type of level and then compare that to Bird & Magic you will figure out Lebron is a somewhat better overall individual player.... its hard to try and twist & turn around it....

I don't understand your argument, at first you say Bird could do everything better except for facilitating the offense. So you admit that passing/facilitating is Birds weak point.

And then your argument for Bron being better than Bird is because he was a better paasser/facilitator..

Also you say Lebron is a just as good of a rebounder as Bird, yet Bird consistently averaged 10-11 rebounds per game and Lebron has never done that?

Then you go on to say Lebron has a better scoring arsenal than Magic... Well no shit Magic wasn't known for his elite scoring..

So basically Lebron a better passer than Bird & a better scorer than Magic? Ok, il give you that but your basically jus saying that Lebron is better at doing 2 things that were minor weakness for each player?

How does that make Lebron better? He wasn't the rebounder Bird was, Bird could score in more ways, Magic facilitates better than Lebron or anybody for that matter could ever dream of

[plowking]

Its so easy to see which posters have actually watched, read and bothered to educate themselves on topics. You have posters like pauk and kingwillball that regurgitate material they've read on here or stick to talking about basics and standard basketball cliches.

[SilkkTheShocker]

What? Bron was ball dominant until he left Cleveland

He had to be ball dominant. What else were they suppose to do? Run isolation plays for Sasha Pavlovic? Run pick n rolls with Eric Snow and Gooden? They even moved Larry Hughes to PG halfway through the 06/07 season to try and get him going. That team couldn't score worth a shit. It wasn't until 2008 they got more consistent outside shooting.

[Dragonyeuw]

-Lebron scores more efficiently that either, but he's not as skilled a scorer as Bird

-Magic's passing is best, I'd say Bird and Lebron are pretty much on par. Magic was crazy at making something out of nothing in terms of passing

-Bird's the best rebounder out of the three, Lebron and Magic are roughly par. At least statistically this would support that...

-Lebron is obviously the most physically gifted

-Lebron is obviously the best defender

If we're talking the total sum of their games, I don't think it's an unreasonable statement at this stage. Lebron's current level of play is historic as far as perimeter players go especially.

[Mr. Jabbar]

First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall, i felt he could do everything better than Magic except the facilitate part..... and yes he was a better defender than Magic aswell, he managed to be honored with three 2nd all-defensive team spots... my father who was an avid Celtic fan in the 80s told me that the NBA fans considered by a majority Larry Bird being better overall talent than Magic, there was many polls, media discussions saying so and the players & coaches would mostly favor Bird aswell when asked....

I was a toddler in the 80s, did just barelly catch Bird and Magic live some years before they retired, but due to the tapes my father recorded (good ol VHS) i did kindof grow up watching lots of Larry Bird...

My point is also that i personally think when it comes to Lebron vs Bird its less safe to say he was better compared to Lebron vs Magic....

Here is this guy Lebron, a guy that has the rebounding ability of both Magic & Bird... that has the vision of both of them.... that has the passing ability which you could argue was better than Birds (Lebron was/is for sure at least a better assist man/facilitator, with better ballhandling/PG skills).... that has a greater scoring arsenal than Magic and that produces points better and more efficiently than Both of them....... and so on, offense is kindof arguable.... You begin to argue their offense, but soon as you start thinking about the defensive side..... the comparison is then pretty much over as Lebron is a much better defender than both of them.... Lebron has the versatility of Pippen on the defensive side while having the versatility of Magic on the offensive side....

Accolades wise Lebron still has a road ahead of him... but when you talk about individual players/talents, when you draw up what Lebron can do at this current stage in his career on both ends of the floor and at what type of level and then compare that to Bird & Magic you will figure out Lebron is a somewhat better overall individual player.... its hard to try and twist & turn around it....

why not? you just did...

[pauk]

why not? you just did...

No i didnt, because those assumptions are based on facts, logic and perfect reason... i can show you...

[TheMarkMadsen]

No i didnt, because those assumptions are based on facts, logic and perfect reason... i can show you...

First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall.

I was a toddler in the 80s

[plowking]

Plus they are on the short list of guys id say were better passers at their size, they both had a will to win I think blows Lebrons away, and both proved they could score him...if they chose to.

Interesting you mention "will to win". Quite a cliche, especially when mentioning Larry Bird who said in his first year that he most likely wouldn't want to be in the league after 5 or 6 years. Obviously things changed, but I think its conjecture when mentioning things like "will to win" or "love of the game", since you don't really know how much a player wants to win, or how he shows such emotion. Everyone reacts and handles things differently.

[2010splash]

Yes. LeBron is on a level that has only been matched by prime Jordan. Magic and Bird were never as good as LeBron was even during his MVP Cavaliers days, never mind current LeBron. Do you really see Magic or Bird leading the putrid roster Cleveland had to the best record in the entire league two straight seasons?

[iamgine]

Yes. LeBron is on a level that has only been matched by prime Jordan. Magic and Bird were never as good as LeBron was even during his MVP Cavaliers days, never mind current LeBron. Do you really see Magic or Bird leading the putrid roster Cleveland had to the best record in the entire league two straight seasons?

Bird kinda did with the Celtics in his 1st season...

[pauk]

@MarkMadsen.... you didnt seem to comprehend what i was talking about, i am gona try be more thorough.

What Lebron has at his advantage offensively compared to Bird:

*Ballhandling
*Athleticism (which he uses for the defensive side aswell)
*Open-court/Full-court game
*Just simply putting the ball in the hole more and more efficiently.
*Running the offense for his teammates, is a better assist man.
*Can play basically all positions & roles offensively.

What Bird has at his advantage offensively compared to Lebron:

*Shooting
*Post game
*This above made him i think a better overall half-court offensive scorer.

Arguable for both:
*Vision & Passing Ability, in which its a mute point according to me, as they possess probably the best combination of passing skills & vision ive seen from any non-PGs.
*Intangibles & IQ.

What Lebron has at his advantage defensively:

*EVERYTHING

What Bird has at his advantage defensively:

*NOTHING

This doesnt mean Bird was a bad defender, but that he has no advantage of Lebron there....

One other thing which you could say Bird was better at is rebounding as he produced 2.8 more rpg over his career.... but from watching them you will quickly figure it had to do more with tendencies/habits, Bird would attack the defensive boards more often, Lebron would leak out early on the open court instead more often... Bird would attack the offensive boards more often, Lebron would instead more often run back early to stop the opposing leak-out/open-court/fastbreak opportunity..... Birds defensive ability itself was actually not any greater than Lebrons (or Magics)..... its like saying Lebron is a better passer than Bird because Lebron produces more assists.... understand? Doesnt completely work that way...

When push comes to shove Lebron with short words is simply a more overall productive, efficient and more versatile talent at this stage in his career.... its very difficult to fight this... and both Magic & Bird with their own words acknowledged this....


Lebron today i think is also more dominant than Magic & Bird were.... its because Magic & Bird were flip-flopping over that honor, that "best player" honor, one year its Magic, one year its Bird, one year its somebody completely else (Moses 1983), one year its Magic, Bird, Magic, Bird, over and over, then this guy Michael Jordan came into the picture..... Lebron has no rival/rivals like that, he is dominating it all, he is clearly the best player, its Lebrons basketball world and we are living in it...

[Whoah10115]

It's safe to say that he isn't.


Magic is better than Bird and James is not.

[lilgodfather1]

Scoring
LeBron - 3
Bird - 2
Magic - 1

Passing
Magic - 3
LeBron/Bird - 1.5 (although LeBron is better imo, i'll leave my bias out)

Rebounding
Bird - 3
LeBron/Magic - 1.5

Defense
LeBron - 3
Bird - 2
Magic - 1

Point totals

LeBron - 9
Bird - 8.5
Magic - 6.5

I'm not going to do some opinionated ranking system that is completely subjective like things that can't accurately be measured by stats like play making ability, or will to win.

Simple ranking, simple result with no bias on my part.

[gengiskhan]

NO

[SilkkTheShocker]

It's safe to say that he isn't.


Magic is better than Bird and James is not.

Would neg, but I have to spread my rep around before I can neg you again