Who would you rather build your team around - Kareem, Bird, LeBron or MJ?

[dh144498]

Bird. MJ never got past Bird, known as the MJ-road-block.
It was only when Bird was near retirement that MJ finally got a ring in a weak ass era.

this. 90s = watered down era. The talents were DILUtED.

[knicksman]

You've completely lost your mind scrub. I don't know if it's the years and years of LeBron dumping all over the Knicks that's clouding your judgement, but you're talking straight nonsense. Nobody thinks Bird is better than Jordan. Nobody (except Kobe fans) believes Kobe has ever been better than LeBron has been these past several years.

Kobe's rings = due to circumstances. Have LeBron drafted onto a team with prime Shaq and he'd have 6 titles by now. LeBron is on another world than Oscar and much better than Kobe as well.

You're realistically looking at a resume that includes 6-7 MVPs, 4-5 Finals MVPs when his career is over.

LOL the only reason why bird is not better than jordan/magic is because of rings same with oscar but statistically speaking bird/oscar beats magic/kobe and oscar/lebron beats jordan. But impact wise, they are not as impactful as jordan/magic/kobe. Their combined rings are 5 which is only good as one of either kobe/magic/jordan. It is what it is my friend. If you have the IQ as high as mine, you would realize that statpadding doesnt mean impact in this league. Or else players like duncan and russell wouldnt be impactful players. Jordan tried it before with his 32 8 8 and his team sucks more than the season before. So unless lebron change his game, he would just end up as one of those guys.

[knicksman]

MJ because he's had the most success. While I think he is the best individual player hands down, it doesn't mean he's the best for most winning team chemistry. If there is only one star on each team I pick Jordan. The second you add another star, Jordan's value dips a bit and he is nolonger the obvious pick.

Philosophically, two's and four's are supposed to be complementary support pieces - not the primary pieces.

Building is easiest around a dominant center. So one would go with Kareem as being easiest to build around. But look at Kareem's career before Magic. Magic and Bird made the league more exciting and perimeter based. They also put Chess in the game by being involved mentally in controlling the game in other dimensions.

Bird and Lebron could play with anybody and magnify their talents. So they are the easiest and the most adjustable for any upcoming draft or free agency. So I picked the deepest draft I could think of "96 and '84
Iverson, Abdur Raheem, Kobe, Stepon Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Stojakavich, Nash, Jermaine O'neal, Zydrunas IIgauskas, Marcus Camby, Derek Fisher and Ben Wallace

Add 1984 Hakeem, Barkley, Thorpe, Alvin Roberston, Stockton, Perkins, Bowie, Kevin Willis, Sam Perkins,

Meaning Kobe, Akeem, Barkley and Iverson are co-stars. So Jordan, nolonger is at an advantage as he can only have a semblance of coexistence with Akeem (ok that is guess work but you have to kind of believe that). The next tier is Allen, Nash, B Wallace, Robertson, Stockton or Stojakavich. Then Perkins, Starbury, Camby, Z, Jermaine, Raheem,Thorpe etc.

To me its obvious that Bird and Lebron harmonizing and making the second, third, fourth and fifth players better is the difference here. At least, so is the way I see it.

yah thats why jordan needed superstar talents in rodman and pippen rather than wade and bosh. LOL same with bird who needed HOF talents compared to past prime kareem for magic and yet only managed 3 rings.

[La Frescobaldi]

this. 90s = watered down era. The talents were DILUtED.

And so it begins.

[midatlantic09]

LOL at pusy lebron being comparable to ultracompetitive players like bird, mj, kareem.

LOL @ Birds career PER of 23.5. He may be the most overrated ball player that ever lived; aside from the rings, the guy is on par with Barkley and Garnett as an individual player, not MJ/Kareem/Lebron.

[ILLsmak]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Larry having HOF team mates while Jordan had no one should be taken into consideration...

Hall of Fame before Bird? Who, like Walton?

I'm taking LARRY. Everyone has a case, though. To me, Larry would play the hardest and would fit with the most supporting casts. Of course, in today's NBA you can say LeBron is the best because having a primary ball handler that gets you 30 is important. Still, as long as someone could run a halfway decent offense and get the ball to Larry, it'd be good.

I think Bron, MJ, and Kareem may be regarded as better than Larry when it's all said and done... and I never got to watch Bird day in and day out, but from what I have seen of him, he's one of the only players that has wowed me in a WAT sort of way. I'm not surprised by people doing crazy dunks anymore, but the shit Larry did was amazing. Those shots...

I really wish he had better health, but I think he played too hard and trained too hard.

also Edit: Lol at PER.

-Smak

[Thorpesaurous]

Team building is one of my favorite excercises. And as much as I get the MJ is Goat argument, he's a really tough guy to build around.

Offensively he occupies the block, which means you need to find a Center who can space the weakside of the floor. And you can't use a traditional PG because he's going to dominate the ball in the half court, so you want a PG to space the floor too. One of the biggest cases for Jordan being so difficult to build around is Pippen, who is one of the weirdest, most gap filling players of all time. He handles the ball as the PG on one end, can run the Fast Break as a PG, can defend the PG on the other end, but still out rebound and defend the rim at his position allowing him to cover up for the limitations that are generally found in Centers who can space the floor.

I firmly believe that the game is easiest to effect from the inside out, and while that's less the case in today's game, I'd still take Kareem first. He's not a plodder, and can even space from the block too more than most bigs historically. And he impacts the court defensively even more than Jordan or Lebron who are historically good defenders.

Bird and Lebron are close to me. They both bring a multitude of skills to the table, which would be what I'm looking for from the ground up. Bird's advantage obviously being his shooting, vs. Lebron's athleticism and defense. I'd also give Bird a pretty serious nod in the post department, but this year and going forward it appears Lebron has figured that out, and that gap will close over time.
The argument for Bird as a building block is that he's the most capable of all the truely great players to play off the ball. If you're starting from scratch, and you get your hands on someone else in addition to Bird, he's the most equipped to play with any of the other greats, because his shooting allows him to stretch the floor more than the other guys, and he can truely play inside and out, with or without the ball.
Gun to my head I'd probably take Lebron two because I know I can build an entire defense around him switching, but it's a really close call.

[jongib369]

Team building is one of my favorite excercises. And as much as I get the MJ is Goat argument, he's a really tough guy to build around.

Offensively he occupies the block, which means you need to find a Center who can space the weakside of the floor. And you can't use a traditional PG because he's going to dominate the ball in the half court, so you want a PG to space the floor too. One of the biggest cases for Jordan being so difficult to build around is Pippen, who is one of the weirdest, most gap filling players of all time. He handles the ball as the PG on one end, can run the Fast Break as a PG, can defend the PG on the other end, but still out rebound and defend the rim at his position allowing him to cover up for the limitations that are generally found in Centers who can space the floor.

I firmly believe that the game is easiest to effect from the inside out, and while that's less the case in today's game, I'd still take Kareem first. He's not a plodder, and can even space from the block too more than most bigs historically. And he impacts the court defensively even more than Jordan or Lebron who are historically good defenders.

Bird and Lebron are close to me. They both bring a multitude of skills to the table, which would be what I'm looking for from the ground up. Bird's advantage obviously being his shooting, vs. Lebron's athleticism and defense. I'd also give Bird a pretty serious nod in the post department, but this year and going forward it appears Lebron has figured that out, and that gap will close over time.
The argument for Bird as a building block is that he's the most capable of all the truely great players to play off the ball. If you're starting from scratch, and you get your hands on someone else in addition to Bird, he's the most equipped to play with any of the other greats, because his shooting allows him to stretch the floor more than the other guys, and he can truely play inside and out, with or without the ball.
Gun to my head I'd probably take Lebron two because I know I can build an entire defense around him switching, but it's a really close call.

[HannibalKid]

Gotta go with Kareem.

[beau_boy04]

The most logical pick would be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Building around a dominant center such as Kareem would be easier than a wing such as Jordan. With all the hype around Kareem in his college days but then you have the 1984 Olympics where Jordan showcased all his skills, so either Jordan or Jabbar for me.

[arifgokcen]

LOL the only reason why bird is not better than jordan/magic is because of rings same with oscar but statistically speaking bird/oscar beats magic/kobe and oscar/lebron beats jordan. But impact wise, they are not as impactful as jordan/magic/kobe. Their combined rings are 5 which is only good as one of either kobe/magic/jordan. It is what it is my friend. If you have the IQ as high as mine, you would realize that statpadding doesnt mean impact in this league. Or else players like duncan and russell wouldnt be impactful players. Jordan tried it before with his 32 8 8 and his team sucks more than the season before. So unless lebron change his game, he would just end up as one of those guys.

what a delusional fan

[guy]

Bird. MJ never got past Bird, known as the MJ-road-block.
It was only when Bird was near retirement that MJ finally got a ring in a weak ass era.

[knicksman]

Team building is one of my favorite excercises. And as much as I get the MJ is Goat argument, he's a really tough guy to build around.

Offensively he occupies the block, which means you need to find a Center who can space the weakside of the floor. And you can't use a traditional PG because he's going to dominate the ball in the half court, so you want a PG to space the floor too. One of the biggest cases for Jordan being so difficult to build around is Pippen, who is one of the weirdest, most gap filling players of all time. He handles the ball as the PG on one end, can run the Fast Break as a PG, can defend the PG on the other end, but still out rebound and defend the rim at his position allowing him to cover up for the limitations that are generally found in Centers who can space the floor.

I firmly believe that the game is easiest to effect from the inside out, and while that's less the case in today's game, I'd still take Kareem first. He's not a plodder, and can even space from the block too more than most bigs historically. And he impacts the court defensively even more than Jordan or Lebron who are historically good defenders.

Bird and Lebron are close to me. They both bring a multitude of skills to the table, which would be what I'm looking for from the ground up. Bird's advantage obviously being his shooting, vs. Lebron's athleticism and defense. I'd also give Bird a pretty serious nod in the post department, but this year and going forward it appears Lebron has figured that out, and that gap will close over time.
The argument for Bird as a building block is that he's the most capable of all the truely great players to play off the ball. If you're starting from scratch, and you get your hands on someone else in addition to Bird, he's the most equipped to play with any of the other greats, because his shooting allows him to stretch the floor more than the other guys, and he can truely play inside and out, with or without the ball.
Gun to my head I'd probably take Lebron two because I know I can build an entire defense around him switching, but it's a really close call.

Actually its easier to build around mj than lebron/bird. I dont see lebron/pippen working and pippen type of players are a dime a dozen in this league. Its the same for magic, people are saying lebron/bird are better than magic but its easier to build around him thats why he won more rings. Players who are more focused on one role are easier to build than statpadders because they provide quality skills rather than quantity of skills. thats why oscar was a loser.

[Micku]

Actually its easier to build around mj than lebron/bird. I dont see lebron/pippen working and pippen type of players are a dime a dozen in this league. Its the same for magic, people are saying lebron/bird are better than magic but its easier to build around him thats why he won more rings. Players who are more focused on one role are easier to build than statpadders because they provide quality skills rather than quantity of skills. thats why oscar was a loser.

How so?

I actually don't see that. I think both are great, but Bird is the guy who turned around a sucky team to a championship contender in his rookie year.

I think if MJ had a better team, like if the 86 Bulls team had a chance to actually play together longer with MJ in the lineup, then they would've been a fun team to watch. Or if MJ had a big man. But Bird didn't have a good center when first to the Celtics. He just transform the team.

I would probably take MJ if the team is already good. Especially in his early stages of his career. But I would take Bird to make a team great.

[bagelred]

Michael Jordan


Obvious choice is obvious.