Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson - Who was the better player All Time?

[Round Mound]

Bird Was Better and Was a Better Defender than Magic.

Bird Was NOT an Era Specific Player He Averaged 20-9-6 at age 35 in 1992.

[eliteballer]

Why are you acting like an idiot constantly?

Aside from 1984 Finals, the Celtics had no depth in their bench. So does Bird. Especially 1987 Finals, the Celtics had no bench literally. They were just throwing some players(garbage-time players mostly) to the field so the main guys can rest.

Also Bird and the Celtics were getting roughed up by the strong ECF teams and some serious matchups (Erving and Wilkins are first ones that came to mind), the West was a joke back then. They didn't have a bench and they got to the Finals with expending much more energy.


But here is the numbers;
Bird; 42.1 mpg 25.3 ppg 11.1 rpg 4.6 apg 1.7 spg 1.0 bpg 2.9 tpg 19.2 fga 8.1 fta on .475 efg .864 ft (29.3 eff)
Magic; 40.3 mpg 20.7 ppg 7.5 rpg 11.9 apg 2.2 spg 0.4 bpg 3.4 tpg 15.2 fga 5.2 fta on .536 efg .778 ft (31.1 eff)


But if I know about somethings about uncontrolled fans like you, you will not change your attitude and say some bs about their mpg.

Now why would I change my mind when those numbers back up what I'm saying? Magic blows him away especially in the efficiency department.

Magic averaged 21.5 points 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 stl on 57% FG in the 1980 Finals as a 20 year old rookie. Know what Bird was doing at that age? Playing against boys 2 years before Magic would beat him in the NCAA championship.

Magic won more, he BEAT AND OUTPLAYED PEAK BIRD MULTIPLE TIMES ON THE BIGGEST STAGE WHILE BEING 3 YEARS YOUNGER. He could play all 5 positions and was more versatile because of his ballhandling ability, and was BY FAR a bigger mismatch.

The West had PLENT of competition.

The Defending champion Sonics in 1980
Drexler's Blazers
Robinson/Nance/Johnson Suns cracking 50 wins every year.
Sampson/Hakeem Rockets
Blackman Mavs
Stockton/Malone Jazz
Gilmore/Gervin Spurs

[ShaqAttack3234]

Why are you acting like an idiot constantly?

Aside from 1984 Finals, the Celtics had no depth in their bench. So does Bird. Especially 1987 Finals, the Celtics had no bench literally. They were just throwing some players(garbage-time players mostly) to the field so the main guys can rest.

Also Bird and the Celtics were getting roughed up by the strong ECF teams and some serious matchups (Erving and Wilkins are first ones that came to mind), the West was a joke back then. They didn't have a bench and they got to the Finals with expending much more energy.


But here is the numbers;
Bird; 42.1 mpg 25.3 ppg 11.1 rpg 4.6 apg 1.7 spg 1.0 bpg 2.9 tpg 19.2 fga 8.1 fta on .475 efg .864 ft (29.3 eff)
Magic; 40.3 mpg 20.7 ppg 7.5 rpg 11.9 apg 2.2 spg 0.4 bpg 3.4 tpg 15.2 fga 5.2 fta on .536 efg .778 ft (31.1 eff)


But if I know about somethings about uncontrolled fans like you, you will not change your attitude and say some bs about their mpg.

Bird also had a number of injuries in the '85 finals, and he had missed a couple of games earlier in the playoffs because of some of those injuries, iirc. Bird himself would never use injuries as an excuse, but I think it's pretty clear that they were a factor in the '85 finals.

[Straight_Ballin]

Sure.

"era specific" is a term coined by Kobe stans, lakers stans.

It is applied to any all-timer who shoots 50%FG or is insanely efficient or ULTRA CLUTCH in post-season & finals.

this makes kobe's ball hogging, chucking 25ppg career ave at 45%FG look PATHETIC & to deliberately protect kobe's INFLATED legacy, these all-timers automatically become "era specific"

Thats about it.

Examples of "era specific" players according to Kobe'tards

1.Bird
2.moses
3.Dr. J
4.Sir. Charles
5.D'Rob
6.Hakeem
7.Duncan

list goes on & on. Any player thats all-time Top 10-18 with exception of Bird.

That's funny because Kobe is the biggest era specific player of all time.

[eliteballer]

Bird also had a number of injuries in the '85 finals, and he had missed a couple of games earlier in the playoffs because of some of those injuries, iirc. Bird himself would never use injuries as an excuse, but I think it's pretty clear that they were a factor in the '85 finals.

Maybe we should just ignore Magic's injury in 81, Worthy's injury in 83, Magic and Scott's injuries in 89, Worthy and Scott's injuries in 91, give him 9 titles and call it a day.

[Pushxx]

Bird Was Better and Was a Better Defender than Magic.

Bird Was NOT an Era Specific Player He Averaged 20-9-6 at age 35 in 1992.

With a broken back no less.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Maybe we should just ignore Magic's injury in 81, Worthy's injury in 83, Magic and Scott's injuries in 89, Worthy and Scott's injuries in 91, give him 9 titles and call it a day.

I was referring to Bird's individual play in the series. at Magic's injury in '81. He returned with more than a month left in the regular season and averaged 21.8 ppg in the 17 games after his return. 23.3 ppg after returning to the starting lineup for the final 15 games of the season, including 41 points and 33 on the final 2 games of the season.

[eliteballer]

I was referring to Bird's individual play in the series. at Magic's injury in '81. He returned with more than a month left in the regular season and averaged 21.8 ppg in the 17 games after his return. 23.3 ppg after returning to the starting lineup for the final 15 games of the season, including 41 points and 33 on the final 2 games of the season.

If you actually knew anything you'd know Magic always thought he came back too early

[ShaqAttack3234]

If you actually knew anything you'd know Magic always thought he came back too early

What I do know is that he was cleared to play a week before he actually returned. Would you like me to provide the article? I also know that it didn't seem to affect his play at all in the regular season, then the playoffs come and his poor play is the primary reason the Lakers lost the mini-series vs Houston and didn't repeat as champions. Big difference with Bird's '85 situation when he had missed games in the playoffs and the commentators were listing various injuries he was playing through in the finals.

[Solid Snake]

I was born after all that but seems to me Magic was pretty much better in every way

I just don't see the argument for Bird. People saying stuff like "Bird was the better player" but there's absolutely nothing to support it.

Much better scorer, just as good of a passer.

[Rooster]

Now why would I change my mind when those numbers back up what I'm saying? Magic blows him away especially in the efficiency department.

Magic averaged 21.5 points 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 stl on 57% FG in the 1980 Finals as a 20 year old rookie. Know what Bird was doing at that age? Playing against boys 2 years before Magic would beat him in the NCAA championship.

Magic won more, he BEAT AND OUTPLAYED PEAK BIRD MULTIPLE TIMES ON THE BIGGEST STAGE WHILE BEING 3 YEARS YOUNGER. He could play all 5 positions and was more versatile because of his ballhandling ability, and was BY FAR a bigger mismatch.

The West had PLENT of competition.

The Defending champion Sonics in 1980
Drexler's Blazers
Robinson/Nance/Johnson Suns cracking 50 wins every year.
Sampson/Hakeem Rockets
Blackman Mavs
Stockton/Malone Jazz
Gilmore/Gervin Spurs

Speaking of FG%. Lakers have the 3 best team FG percentage in the history of the game and not just because of Showtime fast break, Magic also know when to give the ball to everyone sweet spot. Magic 9 Finals appearance and 5 rings speaks for itself.

[Pointguard]

Magic easily had the better teammates plus they were playing better, and wasn't even the clear-cut man main, Kareem was for the most part.
Bird was the clearcut main man and leader, definitely played better overall D also, faced also better overall competition in the East.

Yea Magic won two Finals and two MVPs (one belonging to Kareem), but Bird still managed to win a title with a team that was terrible before him, adding Parish and McHale (who was still young and not playing much) in his 2nd year. Can't see how Magic is REALLY better, in any way. Plus in the regular season it's easily Bird and that means something also.

In the early years, the one time Boston won it all Maxwell won the FMVP and Maxwell wasn't that good of player. The other years, Bird was outplayed at his position by Doc and Marques Johnson when Boston got eliminated. Bird's teammates which weren't bad, had nothing to do with Bird's bad shooting in the playoffs. Magic's shooting percentage was always very good except one year.

Once Magic arrived he was the man in LA. Kareem was a great individual player that couldn't do much with his LA teams when the league wasn't that good. Magic was a great team player and leader that made them winners when the league was much better. Kareem was on Magic's team - it wasn't the other way around. Magic was the main man.

I won't go against that, but it was close and Worthy had that amazing decisive game 7, much close than Magic to Kareem in 1980. What Kareem did in 5 games in the 80 Finals (not to mention the rest of the playoffs and so on) was more impactful and better than what Magic did in 6. There wouldn't even be a game 6 if it wasn't for Kareem, and he would've returned in game 7 to finish them and continue the destruction. Plus Wilkes also had an amazing game 6 that goes overlooked.

Magic had already an uncanny ability to control pace and make players better. Kareem always capitalized on that. The problem of the 70's was that players played in their own world. Magic put the Laker team on the same page. When Kareem played with Dantly, Wilkes and Nixon all averaging over 17ppg, the year before Magic came, and averaging 77 points between them they weren't a contending team. The Magic ship was much better than what was there before... The winning attitude and everything. In 4 years Kareem didn't do anything for LA.

Are you gonna overlook the fact that Bird badly injured his hand in a bar fight during the 1985 playoffs, there's not much to say about it, still averaged 24/9/5 on 45/33/85. In 1984 he completely destroyed the Lakers with every teammate really underperforming, think it would be any different in 1985 if he was healthy? Still Kareem had to had one of GOAT Finals in 1985 for the Lakers to beat the Celtics.

If Bird had a history of dominating in the finals, I could go with this. But Bird only had one dominating championship run and had several series where his shot went astray. So we can't say he is guaranteed to be dominant again. If he gets into fights at bars, its part of his package. That's the way the ball bounces. If Magic kept himself healthy, I'm sure he has a better story to tell as well.

Bird's domination at the position not that long? Lmao gtfo, when he was healthy(er), 1980-1988, he was always all-nba 1st, 7 times top 2 in MVP, completely changed the Celtics to much better, playing in the goat era, playing in the goat era for Sf's, in the goat conference, plenty of times teammates underperforming, plenty of times playing against better teams on paper.

He was not dominant before 1984. He wasn't consistent in the playoffs at all and could be outplayed by others at his position in elimination series until then. He was definitely top tier but he wasn't dominant. Which is ok, three/four years isn't bad by any measure of the stick.

[ShaqAttack3234]

In the early years, the one time Boston won it all Maxwell won the FMVP and Maxwell wasn't that good of player.

He may have gotten the award, but I've always thought Bird was clearly the more valuable player in that series. His shot wasn't falling, but his impact was still greater than Maxwell's.

Once Magic arrived he was the man in LA. Kareem was a great individual player that couldn't do much with his LA teams when the league wasn't that good. Magic was a great team player and leader that made them winners when the league was much better. Kareem was on Magic's team - it wasn't the other way around. Magic was the main man.

Kareem was definitely the man in 1980, and I'd say through at least Magic's first 4 years. He was league MVP and for good reason, and the offense at that time revolved around Kareem in the post. Magic pushed them over the top(as well as some other nice additions) but that doesn't mean it was his team from the start.

Magic had already an uncanny ability to control pace and make players better. Kareem always capitalized on that. The problem of the 70's was that players played in their own world. Magic put the Laker team on the same page. When Kareem played with Dantly, Wilkes and Nixon all averaging over 17ppg, the year before Magic came, and averaging 77 points between them they weren't a contending team. The Magic ship was much better than what was there before... The winning attitude and everything. In 4 years Kareem didn't do anything for LA.

Kareem pretty much did as much as he could for LA. He carried them, but the team was flawed, especially in '77 when he dragged them as far as they could possibly go. Obviously when you add a player of Magic's caliber they're going to get better, but the 1980 Lakers would have gotten a hell of a lot worse if you just took Kareem off too so what does that mean? The '80 Lakers don't sniff a title without Kareem.

If Bird had a history of dominating in the finals, I could go with this. But Bird only had one dominating championship run and had several series where his shot went astray. So we can't say he is guaranteed to be dominant again. If he gets into fights at bars, its part of his package. That's the way the ball bounces. If Magic kept himself healthy, I'm sure he has a better story to tell as well.

I'd call Bird's '84 and '86 championships dominant.

He was not dominant before 1984. He wasn't consistent in the playoffs at all and could be outplayed by others at his position in elimination series until then. He was definitely top tier but he wasn't dominant. Which is ok, three/four years isn't bad by any measure of the stick.

I'd say Bird was pretty dominant even early on. He wasn't as good as '84-'88, but even during his first 4 years, he was leading his team to about 60 wins every year, had already won a title, was always one of the top MVP candidates and led that remarkable turnaround as a rookie.

I've always thought it took Magic longer to become dominant than it took Bird. Though that makes sense since Bird was 3 years older and the man on his team right away.

[BoutPractice]

From the games I've watched and the way their career unfolded, they're very close in terms of impact on the game, usually one of my first criteria when it comes to ranking players, so you have to take other aspects into account.

Magic has the better looking resume. Bird was a better scorer, arguably the more complete player, and was more highly regarded in his day.
Magic truly dominated when he was handling the ball. Bird couldn't handle like Magic but he could dominate without the ball on offense. It depends on what you value most.

Personally, if I were a GM, I'd probably build my team around Magic. I'm obsessed with comparative advantage, and a 6-9 PG whose body type is not a gimmick but a main component of his game gives you pretty much the ultimate comparative advantage on offense.

[K Xerxes]

People who don't think it was Kareem's team in the early 80s are seriously underestimating how good Kareem was back then. He was the consensus best player in the league in that time, particularly 1980, and the last 10 years, no question. While Magic's game 6 is constantly flaunted as being one of the greatest performances of all time - and deservedly so - Kareem was undoubtedly the best player in that team in the regular season and playoffs. He averaged 32-12-3-4 in the post season; Magic had 18-10-9. Kareem had 33-14-3-5 in the finals; Magic had 22-11-9. There's a valid argument that Kareem should have won finals MVP but his performance was obviously forgotten when he was injured for the closeout game and Magic dropped 42-15-7.

I wonder if the Showtime dynamic would have been looked at in a different light historically had Kareem won the finals MVP in 1980.